Neuter/spay - Why? Why not?

Personally, the shelter/euthanization aspect of this does not really weigh in on medical decisions I make about my dogs.  Not to make light of pet overpopulation, but how other people treat their pets has never factored in on how I treat mine.  I know that *my* dogs will not be producing offspring that end up in shelters, so I won't spay or neuter them based on the lowest common denominator of stupid people that are careless with their dogs.  Also, when I worked in the shelter, most of the dogs that were surrendered were because of behavioral problems or the novelty wearing off.  Many were already speutered.  Puppies/litters made up a pretty marginal percentage and even so, they were typically adopted within days of being available.  It was rare I passed the puppy room and found a puppy in there that was actually up for adoption. 

To me, a spay/neuter is not something to take lightly and I'd have to consider all of the factors as they relate to the individual dog.

Personally, I don't think there is any compelling reason for the average pet owner to NOT spay or neuter their dog.  Why would anyone knowingly want to be put in that position of responsibility when the other option (spay/neuter) is so much easier/better all around?

I have no issue with people waiting -- but once your dog has passed the 12/18/24 month range there is no reason for a pet to stay intact.  I will never understand "normal people" who want to keep their dog intact for basically no reason at all (other than that whole issue men have with neutering...).

The only reason I see for leaving a dog intact is for showing/breeding reasons.  If you aren't doing either of those, WHY would you not spay/neuter?

Kaiser is intact (11 months old) and will start showing conformation next year.  If he does exceptionally well, I will make him available for breeding.  If not, he will be neutered at two.  I do not wish to have him neutered prior to that for growth reasons, in order to benefit his career as a sporting dog.

In San Antonio it is not at all uncommon to see someone bring in the bitch and the entire litter.  I can't tell you how many dumped pregnant females on the side of the road I have seen in the course of my lifetime living here.  It's hard not to promote spay/neuter in this area.  Education is great and next week I'll be going to an elementary school with Rex as part of a program to teach responsible pet ownership but until the day when the shelters are full of mostly speutered dogs I will continue to encourage the average pet owner to speuter.

Are you "intact"?  Do you want kids?  If yes, and no, then why?

KarissaKS

Why would anyone knowingly want to be put in that position of responsibility when the other option (spay/neuter) is so much easier/better all around?

Who says it is though?  There are health risks as well as health benefits. There are cons as well as pros.  These have been discussed on this thread, on the "Intact males" thread and on the "What Is Your Opinion" (docking) thread. 

Look at it the other way round - why would you bother to put your dog through an invasive medical procedure at 2 years old?  What's the point?  What will be "easier and better" after his op?  This is a specific, honest and direct question, not a rhetorical one.

If you don't want that responsibility - why not get a goldfish, that doesn't have to be surgically altered so that you can "handle the responsibility" of caring for it?

Chuffy those are my sentiments and questions as well.  Nikon's breeder prefers the males be left intact.  None of them have sired unwanted litters...  If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

JackieG

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

 

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Maybe not...but that doesn't make me comfortable with the idea that governments, via mandatory S/N laws, can decide for me that I can't be trusted to be responsible for my own dog.

I said it in another thread and I'll say it here - that logic is also the argument for BSL...the few destroy it for the many.

Responsible people are the ones making educated choices - either way - about what is best for their dog.  The only way to become educated is to discuss the issue, right? 

JackieG

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

 

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

But I am sure Karissa is.  As are you.  And Liesje.  And me I hope! 

I am not saying NO ONE should neuter.  Perhaps first time owners are better off doing it in most cases.  But for educated, informed people, it should be an educated, informed choice based on the individual dog in front of them - not an automatic procedure based on propaganda and, as Liesje rightly points out, what the rest of the world does or does not do with THEIR dogs.

As for irresponsible people who let their dog run amok on a regular basis and make no effort to train, socialise or contain him..... no I don't think they should speuter.  I think they should not have a dog!  The message should not be, if you don't think you could handle a dog, get one anyway and get hin fixed.  That is not the level of commitment we should be aiming for IMO. 

Failing THAT, then OK, encourage them to speuter.... whether that encouragement works or not is another matter entirely. 

Edit - Neutering doesn't really get to the heart of the issue - the ignorance and irresponsibility of some dog owners.  Even if you "win the battle" and succeed in getting them to neuter this dog, chances are you will have to start over when they get another. 

I believe there should be a legitimate reason for keeping a dog intact.  The benefits of keeping a dog intact decrease as the dog ages -- as the health risks increase.  Intact males are at high risk for testicular cancer.  Intact females have even more things to worry about!

So yes, I will argue until I'm hoarse about having the right to keep a dog intact until they are fully grown and mature --- but past that point, I simply see no reason in keeping them intact "just because."

And for what it's worth -- I would have my own reproductive organs removed in a heartbeat.  Sadly, I can't find a doctor who will agree to doing it because I'm "too young" to make that decision and I might "change my mind" someday.

We have the right to remove our dog's sexual organs and put them to sleep when they are in pain -- yet we can't make those decisions for ourselves, I guess.

Chuffy

JackieG

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

 

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

But I am sure Karissa is.  As are you.  And Liesje.  And me I hope! 

I am not saying NO ONE should neuter.  Perhaps first time owners are better off doing it in most cases.  But for educated, informed people, it should be an educated, informed choice based on the individual dog in front of them - not an automatic procedure based on propaganda and, as Liesje rightly points out, what the rest of the world does or does not do with THEIR dogs.

As for irresponsible people who let their dog run amok on a regular basis and make no effort to train, socialise or contain him..... no I don't think they should speuter.  I think they should not have a dog!  The message should not be, if you don't think you could handle a dog, get one anyway and get hin fixed.  That is not the level of commitment we should be aiming for IMO. 

Failing THAT, then OK, encourage them to speuter.... whether that encouragement works or not is another matter entirely. 

Edit - Neutering doesn't really get to the heart of the issue - the ignorance and irresponsibility of some dog owners.  Even if you "win the battle" and succeed in getting them to neuter this dog, chances are you will have to start over when they get another. 

Thank you!  I agree completely with the above statements. 

KarissaKS

I believe there should be a legitimate reason for keeping a dog intact.  The benefits of keeping a dog intact decrease as the dog ages -- as the health risks increase.  Intact males are at high risk for testicular cancer.  Intact females have even more things to worry about!

Yes, and there are health risks to speutering as well as health risks to not speutering.  As far aas the health risks go, it is broadly a case of six  and two threes.  If there is a GENETIC tendancy towards health problems linked to the reproductive organs/hormones AND if such problems were prominent in that breed AND in that line, then I agree that having the op for health reasons is a valid one.

Past that, I see no reason to perform invasive surgery on a dog "just because".

I worked in a vet surgery a couple of years ago.  I worked there on day release for just over a year.  I SAW two cats die after being spayed (directly as a result of the complications from the op and/or the aneasthetic) and one dog that developed SERIOUS complications post spay and almost died as well.  People forget that the op is major surgery requiring general aneasthetic, with all the risks and discomfort that goes with it.  It should not be done on a whim, automatically, to every non-breeding dog.

Personally, I would never not speuter my dogs.  Sophie was done at 7 months, and Cruiser done by the rescue before we got him at one year of age. These are mutts who will never be bred.   I do not think it's fair to say "don't get a dog if you can't deal with an intact one".    Our dogs are a part of our family, which includes children. No, I do not want to deal with a dog in heat, I don't want to have to keep my girl seperated from walks in the neighborhood, off lead hikes, or not going to the dog park while in heat. I don't want to have to always worry about Cruiser trying to find a mate. We have a fully fenced in yard, I don't want them to spend their days trying to figure out how to get out to find a mate.   I want my dogs to live the longest, healthiest possible life,  from what I've read spaying and neutering prevents a lot of different illnesses (mammary, ovarian tumors/cysts, uterine infections, testicular cancer, protate problems, etc).  For us, we didn't even consider keeping them intact as an option, nor would I. Where I live, it's extremely rare to see an unaltered dog. If you do see an unaltered pet, it's typically from a low income household without the resources to spay or neuter, there is a stigma associated with it here for the most part.  I'm not saying there aren't people with showdogs that are unaltered or people who chose not to spay or neuter, but it's not something I see very often at all.  

Yes, there are risks to surgery.  There are risks to an unaltered dog running out in the road to. 

We were late with spaying our female cat.  She was close to a year when we had it done. She was obviously very uncomfortable, meowed non stop, it never seemed like the heat cycle ended.    She was very hard to live with during that time and I can't imagine forcing her to live that way for the rest of her life.   I know cat heat cycles are different than dogs, but since cats were mentioend I thought I'd bring it up to.

JackieG

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

 

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

But that has no effect on me.  Those dogs are not allowed near my dogs and my dogs (2 of the 3 being speutered) are not allowed near them.  If people are careless and irresponsible I guess that is their choice, but I won't put my dogs through surgery just for that.  I have plenty of reasons TO speuter my dogs, but the stupid actions of other people is not one of them.

Liesje

JackieG

Liesje

If people are responsible about it, it's really no big deal.

 

The point is that most are not responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

But that has no effect on me.  Those dogs are not allowed near my dogs and my dogs (2 of the 3 being speutered) are not allowed near them.  If people are careless and irresponsible I guess that is their choice, but I won't put my dogs through surgery just for that.  I have plenty of reasons TO speuter my dogs, but the stupid actions of other people is not one of them.

I must be missing something, Lies.  I am not talking about you or Chuffy speutering your dogs or any responsible owner.  And it may not effect you but irresponsible owners effect me when I see the suffering their dogs go through. 

JackieG

I must be missing something, Lies.  I am not talking about you or Chuffy speutering your dogs or any responsible owner.  And it may not effect you but irresponsible owners effect me when I see the suffering their dogs go through. 

But then, if it's OK for "responsible owners" not to neuter because they can handle it...then surely, neutering is not always the best course of action.  You (general you) can't really say "everyone should spay and neuter your pets....but if you're a responsible owner it's ok not to."