Difference between distractable and exciteable?

kpwlee

So what is the difference between exciteable and distractable?

And by my description would you term Bugsy one or the other or neither?

I think excitable is how easy a dog gets keyed up. Distractable is how easy it is for them to get distracted from something. I like being able to distract Shadow if I think a situation is going wrong. When on the trail of a scent, he can lock on hard. But, I've been able to distract him. I reward that with treats, sometimes I reward it with moving forward in the tracking. Either one is a reward for him.

Labs are known as eternal puppies, goofy guys, but they originated as a working dog. Even though they were originally bred to retrieve net buoys in the north atlantic, they have also proven themselves expert hunters with a keen sense of smell and a dedication that reminds me of Bloodhounds. They are meant to be alert in order to point out or chase prey or retrieve it, such as in duck hunting where the kill lands in the water. For this, they have soft mouth, which is a combination of pressure sensitivity and soft lips that are kind of flappy. So as not to damage the object retrieved. Hyper-vigilance is his job, in one respect. Excitable. Hunting can be a high energy sport at times and may certainly involve walking for miles, followed by a sprint to flush out prey and recall to get out of the line of fire. Distractable. You need to be able to call them off the prey or recall to you. Since they are already doing something rewarding, you need to make hearing you at least as rewarding. In fact, the only reason I would see for using a remote collar is if it is a cue to recall and not a punishment for a missed behavior. Which means lots of careful training before going out to hunt. And they do make collars that vibrate rather than shock and I would find that to be a better alternative. As I said, the stim must be a cue since you are 100 yds away and they can't see your hand gestures and may not hear your voice.

Perhaps the trainer meant he is distractable in that she thinks that he's not focusing on the work if she thinks he's getting distracted by other things. It could also be that Bugsy has a very quick mind. He has already finished the task and another one was not presented fast enough so now he's looking for other things.

 She saw 'exciteable' as a 'bad thing'.  She does not see 'distractable' as a 'bad thing' ( I use the quotes because this is subjective)

ron2

It could also be that Bugsy has a very quick mind. He has already finished the task and another one was not presented fast enough so now he's looking for other things.

I started this thread to find out what some on here see as the difference between the two terms - she and i discussed it

you ever see a dog go into a seezing frenzy of excitement at the agility start line then run the course with intense focus? that's "exciteable" I guess but not "distractable"

 That is what I thought and I had said to her I thought Bugsy was 'exciteable'.  She was adamant that he wasn't and that being exciteable was a negative.

I started this thread to find out what others meant when using those terms 

mudpuppy

you ever see a dog go into a seezing frenzy of excitement at the agility start line then run the course with intense focus? that's "exciteable" I guess but not "distractable"

Yeah that's a good example.  Another would be some Schutzhund dogs and how they get really worked up in the presence of equipment.  Yesterday we were at a working line kennel doing ear tattoos.  My friend/breeder picked up one of their whips and started trying it out.  The woman said "You might not want to do that, if [dog] hears that he will get all worked up because that means it is time to get in drive and work."  There are different opinions as to whether this is good or bad.  For example when Kenya did the TT it was at a Schutzhund/police K9 club and all of the other dogs being tested were SchH dogs.  Their handlers were complaining that the dogs would fail b/c they would see the blinds and other equipment and get out of control, assume all the test helpers were actual SchH helpers.  The man doing the test who is the club trainer and an officer himself told them that was not his problem that they cannot control their dogs.  Luckily, every dog tested fine and the equipment ended up being a non issue.

Nikon gets really worked up when the rag comes out.  He starts growling, barking, jumping in the air and snapping his teeth.  This is the kind of excitement I am purposely building and using to my advantage (and the toy goes away BEFORE get starts to get bored of it or tired, in order to maintain the excitement and anticipation).

Coke on the other hand is VERY distractable.  He doesn't really do anything like bark, lunge, etc.  Sometimes he just sits there calmly but is still very distracted by another dog, a squirrel, someone else's toy. 

kpwlee

I started this thread to find out what others meant when using those terms

Distractable for me means that the dog is easily distracted by outside stimuli, but can usually still respond adequately to commands and you can regain the dog's attention without too much difficulty.

HOWEVER...there are definitely varying degrees of both.  There are some dogs that are excitable, but their bodies respond well to the internal pressure, and they can still perform.  Or there are dogs who are distractable to the point where they almost seem to "check out".

Honor has a problem with the distractions now that we've basically conquered her leash reactivity.  She no longer pulls and barks at the things distracting her, but now sits and doesn't move while the desired object is in her line of vision.  She just STARES, responding to not much.  She'll walk, but that's about it.  It's a killer on the rally course, I tell ya.

To me, Bugsy sounds more distractable, especially if he is still able to complete commands in the presence of something really interesting.  From your previous threads, there are definitely times where Bugsy does get extremely excited, but the behaviors he's exhibiting in class seem more distraction-based to me.  Just my proverbial two cents.

you cannot let him lose focus for a second or you will not get it back easily. 

definitely distracted behavior. A dog working in intense drive is also so focused on what he is doing he doesn't notice much of anything about his surroundings. I can see that some pet-focused obedience trainers would find "excitement" to be a detriment, but many of us into sports and work usually want our dogs to be really worked up and excited when we go to train/work.

 I intentionally excite Emma before I work her, too. It builds focus and drive.

Emma is both excitable AND distractable. We're working, very, very hard, on the latter. She's suddenly become Miss Friendly, and wants to touch people and dogs, all the time. She was never like that, until just recently. 

 Thank you everyone - Infiniti I think your working definition of 'exciteable' is what the trainer was thinking and yes MP I think she is primarily a 'pet' trainer.

Just some further thoughts on Bugsy - because I want to keep learning and be a better handler for him............

As for Bugsy I do think he has both traits.  When I mentioned that if he loses focus - MY focus - he can be difficult to get back it is because he has decided that something else is more important.  He has not been terribly challenged in the classes we have taken so when there is idle time he chooses something else to do. That is my novice perception anyway.

If I were better at handling him, I believe he would be less likely to 'distract'.  I also believe that his strongest drive is prey drive and again if I had been redirecting that since he was a pup to working he would be less distractable.

If I think about taking him to the lake I could get him to do obedience 'stuff' but his focus would be on the waterfowl.  Sit, stay, down, heel are not things he sees as his job.  Due to genetics, catching a goose is what he thinks is his job.  The commands are his distraction, his true focus and intensity are saved for the hunt.  Once he is let go, he is as I have learned the hard way, unstoppable and would do anything to achieve his goal.

Despite being obedient he is ready to explode - to me that is the exciteable part.

Jennie and Infiniti I would love to know what you are doing to help reduce the distractability.  I am working on some self control exercises but would love some additional information

thanks again

 For Emma? LOL This is terrible, but I've decided that I quit. She isn't a high drive dog. She isn't one that can really be campaigned. I'm giving her a break. I'm not going to show her, at the next couple of shows, and I'm going to take Ena to classes, for a while (because, honestly, she could stand a LOT more work), and leave Emma home.

She works a LOT better, after a break. When I start working her again, she'll be begging to work. I'll start her like she's a puppy. The first thing we're going to work is "watch me". I'm going to get it super solid, this time. She's going to have a standing still "watch me" so solid that she can do a utility exam, without flinching or moving her eyes from mine. THEN I will allow her to start back on the rest of obedience. 

If I were better at handling him, I believe he would be less likely to 'distract'.  I also believe that his strongest drive is prey drive and again if I had been redirecting that since he was a pup to working he would be less distractable.

you need to find some way to put his drives and motivation under your control so you can use them. Goose chase he wants, goose chase he gets but only if he does your bidding first. I have some high prey drive dogs and we have squirrels and deer everywhere; many people's instinct is to say NEVER chase them, never look at them, but I say use them if at all possible without risking your dog's health. Look at me, yes, go get that squirrel.

mudpuppy

you need to find some way to put his drives and motivation under your control so you can use them.

As for using his prey drive, we encourage it here in the yard (an acre) as we know he will not leave his invisible fence.  One of his 'jobs' is keeping the squirrels out of an area that I have a bunch of bird feeders.  He can't go near the feeders (to keep the birds safe) but he has plenty of room to do his job.  Once we are in the open it is too dangerous (at this point) to send him as from experience his recall stinks once he locks onto his target.

If I find a good bird dog trainer I will likely go to an e-collar.  I honestly don't think that he will ever be 100% when on a 'hunt'

kpwlee

Infiniti I think your working definition of 'exciteable' is what the trainer was thinking and yes MP I think she is primarily a 'pet' trainer.

So...reducing the distractability...the bane of Honor's existence.  What I've been doing is rewarding voluntary attention from her to me.  In class, I would C&T whenever she looked at me, as well as rewarding her for excellent "Watch Me"s.  I've also been taking a leaf from Leslie McDevitt's book, and have been practicing her game where you reward the dog for coming back to you, but you also keep sending them off to play.  This game's been huge for Honor, we play it in our backyard (where there always seems to be a squirrel ready to entice her!).  I'll release her with a "Go Play!" command, but treat her every time she comes and checks in with me.  The first time we played it, it was amazing how fast she caught on.  Soon, she wanted to only follow me around, which I let her do in increasingly longer intervals.  But make sure that you still break it up with "Go Play!"s, so that you're almost double-rewarding him for attention.

Something else that's been working for Honor is actually a trick Lani gave me.  Lani had suggested this for preparation for the trial we're entering, but I think it might work for Bugs.  She suggested to practice rally (we do rally, but you can choose whatever commands you want) for a couple minutes, then break for PLAY TIME with a toy.  Honor loves tug, and she gets so excited when we break for a game of tug with a stuffie.  I think it works for her, because it's an outlet for any distraction energy she has.  When we come back to the rally practice, she seems more focused.  Granted, you can't take the toy in the ring with you, but it Honor seems to be making the connection that good attention during obedience work gets good rewards.

I think proofing Bugs in higher distraction settings is great practice, but remember to set him up for success and to start small.  If you're going to practice right near his beloved water fowl, start with just rewarding him for attention to you.  Treat him for every time he voluntarily looks at you, and you could even release him to chase a goose or two after longer stares.  Like Mudpuppy said, you can completely make the geese a reward.  Once he is able to focus on you in their presence, add basic sits and downs, and then build on that over time. 

My biggest advice with this is to be prepared to make small improvements and changes to the practice.  You really have to be prepared to start over in a new and challenging setting, but I think you and Bugsy can do it. 

Excitable to me means an inabilty to calm down while distractable is unable to focus at the task at hand. They practically go hand in hand but excitability seems to sound as it can be lessened by exercise white the latter may need some training or maturing.