Dog Community

Female Attacks Juvenile Male

Posted : 1/7/2007 10:41:55 PM

A rather troubling incident occurred at our house today.

Mercy, a 4-year-old beagle mix, attacked Bear, a 1-year-old GSD/wolf hybrid. (He is about a quarter wolf; she's mostly beagle. Both are neutered) Bear is fine; Mercy is fine; but we are worried.

The circumstances were highly baffling. I only heard the attack; first a rapid-fire barking, loud and aggressive, from Mercy; then a scramble and scuffle. From my housemates, who saw it, I heard that Bear had been sitting chewing a rawhide, Mercy next to him; and she had attacked him seemingly without reason. Bear became frightened and peed all over the couch and floor. One housemate grabbed Bear; the other grabbed Mercy, "spanked" her, and dragged her to her owner's room, yelling all the while. (This particular housemate doesn't like Mercy.)

I came upstairs then, and took Mercy to her crate to cool down. She didn't seem to need it--she was quite calm when I came for her, and didn't attack Bear again when I led her past him on her leash. I put her in her crate, where she has been for the past half hour.

Bear and Mercy have a long-standing rivalry, to the point that we don't know which of them is top dog. Mercy used to hold that position quite firmly; but Bear is much bigger than her, very intelligent, and growing older; and now they get into frequent scuffles. Mercy is usually viewed as the instigator; she growls and bares her teeth at him sometimes, especially in the evenings when the dogs occupy the living room together.

(A note: I don't agree with hitting Mercy when she's been aggressive. She's been abused in the past, and she doesn't need any more of that.)

So, my questions are:

What reason could Mercy have had for attacking Bear? They say it was "out of the blue"--but Mercy isn't psychotic, and she must've had some reason. What could it have been?

This has to stop: Bear has very strong jaws, and could hurt Mercy; or else Mercy could scare him so much that his already fearful personality becomes too strong. (He is often afraid of dogs he doesn't know, and of new things.) What can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again?

Does dominance play a role here, or could it be something else?

Vinia

Posted : 1/7/2007 10:47:57 PM

Did Mercy have a rawhide too? If not, perhaps she went after Bear because he had a rawhide, and she wanted it?

Danielle Tate

Posted : 1/7/2007 10:51:43 PM

No, she didn't have one.

rwbeagles

Posted : 1/7/2007 10:52:03 PM

Why on Earth are high value items like food even out amongst multiple dogs? Let alone dogs who have a power struggle going on?

That is undoubtedly what set this one off...she was probably throwing all kinds of signs at the other dog who was either oblivious or testing her limits (12 months to 2 years is prime 'testing time' for young adult dogs). The facts that he peed shows he definitely doesn't have leadership abilities...lol! Sounds like your girl is in charge and you ALL need to back her up and not confuse the issue further.

No high value items out where there is more than 1 dog is a VERY good rule.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/8/2007 7:27:55 AM

I agree. You were just asking for trouble, and the resident older dog was justified in thinking that such a special rawhide should belong to her, since she was there first, and the younger dog has not yet established any status over her, since he is not yet a mature adult.
Also, it is never appropriate for anyone else to hit your dog if no blood is being drawn. I wouldn't tolerate that for any reason. Once they separated the dogs, it should've been over. Especially, since they obviously don't know $&it about dog behavior. If one dog was intent on killing the other, there would've been blood - they were just blustering over the rawhide, most probably. Feed them separately!!!

Chuffy

Posted : 1/8/2007 9:48:50 AM

Most dog fights are not "fights" at all. They are posturing, bluffing, snapping and snarling. No one is intended to get hurt - occasionally there is a mild puncture wound, perhaps to the ear or face but this is most usually likely to be accidental. Next time you get chance, have a good look at their teeth and remember that the jaw is their strongest muscle. That's some pretty offensive weaponry in there. If a dog wanted to really hurt another dog - or a person - the damage would be critical. Most "fights" and even bites are actually just warning shots. Since your house mates don't seem to know much about dogs or their behaviour, take what they say with regards to this incident with a large barrel of salt.

Do these dogs have a crate - or at least a bed of their own? In our house, anything one dog has, another has too and any high value items (bones, rawhide chews etc) get given in the crate/bed and nowhere else. This erases the chances of conflict between dogs. The rule with regards to aggression is that it is not allowed. If we see a situation escalating, they are seperated and left somewhere quiet and safe to cool down (a crate is ideal but this is NOT a punishment). If one causes trouble he is ejected from the room quietly and without fuss.

It sounds like there's a status issue in your house. Superior pack members have more access than their subordinates when it comes to food, toys and the best resting places, no doubt Mercy was wondering as a "higher pack member" why she wasn't the one with a tasty rawhide chew, whether she actually wanted one or not. Hitting Mercy and shouting at her only confused her further and added to the drama when the humans involved should have been the ones to take a leadership role, keep a cool head and act calmly and decisively.

snownose

Posted : 1/8/2007 9:53:19 AM

One housemate grabbed Bear; the other grabbed Mercy, "spanked" her, and dragged her to her owner's room, yelling all the while. (This particular housemate doesn't like Mercy.)

What kind of household is this where people just "Spank" each others dogs?

Do you own any of these dogs?

The dog owners in this house have a lot to learn, yet, and spanking is "Out" under any circumstance.....sheesh.

Danielle Tate

Posted : 1/8/2007 10:34:53 AM

I don't own any of the dogs, but I like all of them... The girls all seem to take a punishment approach to the dogs... And Mercy's history of house-soiling, recently becoming much better, has antagonized two of the girls to her presence.

It's just this:
The girl who holds the lease is the one who dislikes Mercy most. Yesterday, after the incident with her and Bear, she said that the only solution is to get rid of Mercy; and that she doesn't want to try to solve the problem because if you tried the wrong thing, then the dogs could get hurt.

But Mercy's basically a good dog with a rough history; and she doesn't deserve to be put in the pound yet again. Her owner may have no choice, if it's a choice between moving out of our house and getting rid of the dog; she's a poor college student just like I am, and living on her own would be expensive, since we're all lucky to have found such a good arrangement.

So I guess it's no wonder I've taken Mercy's part... it's not her fault she got neglected and abused and whatnot; and it's not her fault she's still shaky on some commands, and doesn't trust easily... I guess I just want to see this dog happy; and this is the best situation she's ever lived in.

Chuffy

Posted : 1/8/2007 10:52:36 AM

If you try to solve the problem by managing the dogs properly using common sense (this is not directed at you personally) then it won't go wrong and the dogs won't get hurt. I'm really sorry the leaseholder is being like that about it, you are right that it isn't fair on Mercy, expecially just when she has started making progress with her other problem. Sticking her in the pound is bound to send her back several paces, if not back to square one and how do you know the next owner will be as patient and understanding as you have been? Or you could look at it another way and think the next owner could be as nice as you and a better owner for her than the current one..... either way we've all got our fingers and paws crossed here that it turns out well for Mercy.

Do any of the dogs in the house have crates?

Danielle Tate

Posted : 1/8/2007 11:00:58 AM

There are two crates for three dogs. The smallest one has been earmarked as Mercy's; she stays in it while the house is empty and the other dogs are in the yard, because she's very good at escaping from the yard.

Chuffy

Posted : 1/8/2007 11:21:26 AM

When you say they have a long standing rivalry.... have there been any other "attacks"?

Your house mates should realise this was not random behaviour and was forseeable and preventable. Only feeding chews/bones etc in the crates will prevent a repeat of that particular incident and there's no way of "doing it wrong" and risking anyone getting hurt.

Also be aware of monopolisers - any dog that positions themself where space is at a premium (hallways, doorways) may be liable to snap at other dogs trying to get by to underline their "status". In our house we call the dog away from the spot and direct them to a better place to lie down.

I'm quite particular about going through doorways first if there's more than one dog coming with me - I find they are less likely to squabble about who goes through "first" as pole position has already been taken (by me).

I'm also not averse to stepping between two dogs to prevent a fight before it happens, (NB, before) but thats because they're mine and I know and trust them, that might not be applicable in your house......

snownose

Posted : 1/8/2007 12:45:30 PM

How would your roomies feel if you stepped in with the training a little bit?
Every little bit helps..........it might help with their decision to keep the dog they might want to get rid of.

Xerxes

Posted : 1/8/2007 1:54:08 PM

So far you've gotten great advice:

NO treats or high value chew toys out in the open. Those are for "in crate" usage only.

ABSOLUTELY NO STRIKING OF THE DOGS IN ANY MANNER. This is the quickest way to get bitten. Dogs do not understand "punishment" and will become frightened and possibly fear biters.

Supervise them when they are together-never let them alone. Crate them when they cannot be supervised.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/8/2007 4:21:17 PM

ORIGINAL: Callista

I don't own any of the dogs, but I like all of them... The girls all seem to take a punishment approach to the dogs... And Mercy's history of house-soiling, recently becoming much better, has antagonized two of the girls to her presence.

It's just this:
The girl who holds the lease is the one who dislikes Mercy most. Yesterday, after the incident with her and Bear, she said that the only solution is to get rid of Mercy; and that she doesn't want to try to solve the problem because if you tried the wrong thing, then the dogs could get hurt.

But Mercy's basically a good dog with a rough history; and she doesn't deserve to be put in the pound yet again. Her owner may have no choice, if it's a choice between moving out of our house and getting rid of the dog; she's a poor college student just like I am, and living on her own would be expensive, since we're all lucky to have found such a good arrangement.

So I guess it's no wonder I've taken Mercy's part... it's not her fault she got neglected and abused and whatnot; and it's not her fault she's still shaky on some commands, and doesn't trust easily... I guess I just want to see this dog happy; and this is the best situation she's ever lived in.

And, just for the lurkers, this is one of the reasons people like me often tell college students not to get dogs until they graduate and have good jobs. I don't mean to sound harsh, just trying to educate others.

agilebasenji

Posted : 1/8/2007 5:53:23 PM

Personally, if I were Mercy's owner, I'd be looking for a new place to live. No way would I put my dog through living with someone who didn't like her. There are other places to live; there aren't any other Mercys.

Mercy is usually viewed as the instigator; she growls and bares her teeth at him sometimes, especially in the evenings when the dogs occupy the living room together.

Ah, but doglanguage is full of subtleties that we, as humans, don't often see and aren't aware of. Perhaps the other was staring too long or moved into her space. But it may be hard to convince the other roommates of this especially if they see Mercy as the "bad dog".

Also, if Mercy is alpha and the humans are trying to put Bear as alpha, it's only a matter of time before one of those dogs is hurt.

The other thing about this situation that really worries me, is an inexperienced owner having a wolf dog. (shudder)

Having said all that, I think you, Callista, should be applauded for trying to figure out a situation that is not of your making or responsibility.