He trys to herd EVERYTHING!

    • Silver

    He trys to herd EVERYTHING!

    Hi,

     im new to this forum and id like some advice, tips anything useful really please.
    I have a Border Collie pup, and i know its in there genes to herd and instincts...
    but he won't stop chasing cars.
    i walk him along the path and as soon as he hears the sound of a motor he goes into stalking position and begins to stalk along the side of the path, when the car gets closer he tries to take off. he bolts, hes on a lead ovbiously, and at the moment can't be let of anywhere near a road or any sorts.
    how do i make him stop? does he just need some general training. i have started him, he knows sit, lie down, leave it and quiet. but leave it isn't working when he hears a car?! and one day. he might catch that car.. Sad
    thoughts anyone?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Brookcove would be a good one to ask about this. Hopefully she'll be along...we also have many others here that will likely have experience with the breed. They're quite the adventure I hear lol.

    I am glad you are keeping your puppy safe and on lead...do you do anything with the pup to give them an outlet for those instincts?

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    I live with six german shepherds, herders extraordinaire, so I feel your pain. PROFESSIONAL training with a good, positive reinforcement trainer is an excellent place to start, and also giving him a JOB to do other than herding.

    The good news is that he's stll a pup so you can teach him how to behave as you want him to.  Because of the genetic factor you'll never totally supress the desire to herd, but chasing cars isn't so much a herding thing as a chasing thing.  A good solid "leave it" is critical, as is a good solid recall, and it's very helpful to teach "watch me".  I can call my off lead dogs off fleeing wildlife with a simple "leave it"  All of these things take time and a lot of work.  There is no quick fix.

    A professional trainer is your best bet.  S/he will teach YOU how to train your dog and those classes will really strengthen the bond between you.

    • Silver

    not at all. his parents were both working sheepdogs... which i guess is where the instincts come from. hes still quite young. 13 weeks. so maybe.. just maybe he will grow out of it?
    i plan on introducing agility and flyball when hes older... but i definitely havn't encouraged this.
    iv tried distracting him with a toy, treats, but his urge to get the car is far much stronger and he shows no interest in them what so ever.
    iv tried making him sit while the car passes but as soon as it goes past he jumps up and tries to make a run for it.

    • Silver

    should i introduce clicker training? does it have a better response than "good boy" and a pat on the head?

    • Gold Top Dog

    My pup responds extremely well to clicker training.  I don't have any BC-specific advice, but I will tell you what I've experienced with my own dog.  I'm sure there will be some folks along in this thread that can give you more insight into BCs (like brookcove, as Gina said).

    As far as your pup being more interested in the cars than he is treats or toys, sometimes you have to play around and find that high-value treat that they find irresistable.  For Harry, it's hot dogs.  I use them for all his training, and lemme tell ya...nothing else exists in the world except me and that bag of hot dogs! Stick out tongue  I've used them on walks (get a fanny pack to keep them in) and he will even ignore other dogs walking past if he knows I have those hot dogs with me!  Pups want to see and sniff and meet everything - the world is new to them.  Getting them to pay attention to you with mega-distractions around them is tough and time-consuming, but persistance and consistancy do pay off.  And I agree with Gina about speaking with a trainer.  I'm sure some of the folks who will drop in on this thread can help recommend some websites where you can find good, positive, reputable trainers in your area.  Now is a great time, because your pup's mind is like a sponge ready to absorb new information, not to mention as your dog grows up, it's going to be much harder for you to be able to physically stop him from running off after a car.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    clicker training is definitely more effective than a "good boy". Can you walk him somewhere further away from cars? when first working around distractions, keep a sufficient distance between dog and distraction to allow the dog to be successful is key- so you'd be really far from the cars such that he's happily playing and obeying commands. Then you oh so slowly close the distance.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wow, thirteen weeks.  Darn, I replied to mudpuppy instead of you (I keep doing that!) and now I can't see your profile.  Where are you located?  You might want to consider herding training, too, as it sounds like he's got some strong instincts!  

    So that's the good news, you've got a real live Border Collie there.  That doesn't mean, though, that he "has" to chase cars.  So don't feel like you are in a hopeless situation.  Think of his mom and dad - if you saw them working, you would have noticed that they had the ability to be around livestock (sheep?) without chasing them every second.

    But, even though that ability is in him, you gotta teach him how to use it.  It's going to take a while, so go find your "patience" hat and stick it firmly on your head!  Big Smile

    Step one - as mudpuppy said, keep him away from the lure of traffic for a little bit.  Honest, play your cards right and this will only take a couple weeks.  Puppies that young don't need tons of exercise - just pretend he's got a life threatening illness and it's up to you to cure him.  And, if you think about it, car chasing is potentially lethal, right?

    Step two, teach him something to do instead of chase that car, when he hears/sees the car.  First, teach him to "down" no matter what.  He already knows it, you say, but does he really know it?  Down means down even if you are running around, somewhere else, etc.  He may think down means "come and then down" - you can teach him not to do this by saying, "Eh-eh!  OFF- Down!" and sort of pushing your arms at him like a crossing guard. 

    Clicker training is really great because it helps a dog know they did something right RIGHT THEN and not when your hands get to the treat and give it to them.  It separates "capturing" the behavior, from the actual reward - "good boy" can muddle things up for a dog that works for praise.  My Coltrane is like that - you have to mark, then praise, because it's so rewarding to him - better than a treat.  If I don't have a clicker, I just repeat the command in a "happy calm voice."

    Anyway, get him to where he's really comfortable with the down, and then start phase three.  You need to be really alert for this.  Go to where the cars are audible or visible, but not right there (like a park where he can see traffic far off).  Watch for the signs that he's getting excited.  remember to stay calm, breath calmly yourself, be alert but make sure you don't have a death grip on the leash.   

    Watch for him to look at a car, move his ears forward a bit, pant a bit.  Ask him to lie down, then praise him very calmly.  Don't throw a party - you want him to stay calm!  But talk to him quietly.

    Don't push it.  Walk away, still telling him what a good boy he is.  Then turn around and walk back to the place where he was starting to react.  The moment you see it - ask him to lie down.  Tell him he's a good boy.  He's allowed to watch those cars, just as long as he's laying down doing it.

    If he won't lie down, tell him, "Sorry!" and turn around and walk briskly away, then ask him to lie down again.  Praise him when he complies.  Next time don't go so close.

    That's the cool thing about this.  He'll tell you when he's comfortable doing this, and when he's ready to go forward.  It's a bit like "simon says" and he is "simon".  If he fails, don't get discouraged.  He's just telling he needs it to be easier.  Sometimes where he fails won't make a bit of sense.  Don't worry about that.  Your job is to make it easier to obey, his is to tell you when it's too hard to obey.

    Gradually it will get easier for him, and you can go closer and closer to the road, until eventually you'll be able  to safely stand in the middle of a busy intersection, or even ask him to DOWN if he's off leash accidentally near a road. 

    That won't happen overnight though.  Remember that a puppy's brain goes through many stages and there's several points where his brains will fall out his ears, and he'll seem to have forgotten everything.  Don't get upset or discouraged.  Pretend, emotionally, that you've never seen this dog before in your life (and in a way it's true, Border Collies go through such rapid changes mentally that they can seem like totally different dogs at various stages!).  Continue to follow his cues and go back to where he CAN obey you, each time he has a meltdown. "Disobedience" is not wilfulness or rebellion, it's information that you can use to figure out your dog's needs. 

    You'll have to trust me at this point when I say your efforts will be well rewarded, even if you don't see it for many months.  There's a point after adolescence, at between 14 and 18 months, when it seems like a switch is thrown in your puppy's brain, and suddenly he knows everything you've working on - and a year after that you'll have a hard time remembering all the work you had to do to get where you are!  Big Smile

    Good luck! 

    • Silver

    thats amazing brookcove, thanks so much for all the advice. the training starts tomorrow! im gonna follow each step and see how it goes from there! you seem the proper Collie Expert! another question... bitting... it guess its just playful but it hurts! and when i'm even giving him a pat on the head he lunges for me. iv used the stones in the bottle trick. but it seems to just make him scared of me and it takes him a further 10mins to come back to me and then it starts all over again... collies are prone to biting and chewing im told, and he will grow out of it?
    and i come from the UK. Scotland to be exact.

    i introduced the clicker training tonight and he seems to understand that click means treat...
    hes amazing offlead. hes at my heels all the time. he doesn't stray and if he does call him and hes right back, its just the cars. oh and people. but i guess thats puppy "im cute come tickle my tummy" mode and he runs off to meet and greet people. but i don't want him to do that, should i discourge people to touching and clapping him as surely this is only encouraging him to go upto the next person and do the same?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Usually dogs this young always want to be with mama, but as he gets older this may change. Start work now on his recall.  Very cute pup!