Managing a Fearful Dog (aDork)

 Well, that sounds EXACTLY like Woobie when I first got him.  It takes a LONG time to recondition them.  Yes, there are some dogs that respond quickly, but mine isn't one of them.  And with some dogs, you have to progress by  millimeters, not inches.  I spent over a month going to PetSmart everyday before we ever walked inside the door.  Every day for the first YEAR I had him was spent doing teeny tiny little things that SLOWLY exposed him to fearful things at the greatest distance possible.  And yes, he had the WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS A TERRIFYING PLACE syndrome also.  He shut down the minute we left the house and wouldn't take treats or toys, so finding a motivator has been a lifelong challenge with him.

Here's my resource list, it has really helped.

Fearfulness - Ian Dunbar

Cautious Canine - Patricia McConnell

Calming Signals -  Turid Rugaas

Shy K9s Group on Yahoo

The Fearful Dog

 Fearful Dogs

aDorkable

I feel that I am quickly approaching the end of my rope, and even more quickly running out of ideas. I have no clue how to manage Misha's fear. I thought doing basic obedience in scary places (like PetSmart) would help, and maybe it did a little. And I thought taking him out more would help, but it doesn't seem to have anything but a negative effect on him. I don't know how to prevent the ALL FEAR, ALL THE TIME reaction when we go out.

Can I assume you have done research and have read up on how to handle a scaredy dog.  No quick answers here because from my experience the dog has to work out its own fear and in its own time.  This can take a long time from a couple of months to a year, given the owners diligent effort.  I can see what you have done so far to cause the dog to have setbacks.  The only thing that you can control is the environment and the situation the dog is placed in.   

For me I work on making the home very friendly and free of scarey things.  In that environment you can work on confidence building and trust.  I say this because you don't state what the dog is afraid of.  I would also work from vantage point of things the dog is not afraid of and slowly introduce things the dog is afraid of at a distance.  This creates a conflict in the dog but you can control that conflict by the proximate of the scarey thing. 

I am sure others will come along with book recommendations and site referrals.  If you can be specific what the dog is afraid of and what you have done and then the dog's reaction.  That would help out alot.

The list of what Misha is afraid of is very long. He's afraid of things from people to hats to green trashcans (the kind you put out on the street) to cars. He's afraid of people approaching him - in pretty much any fashion.

He's not so afraid of hats anymore - I didn't do anything one way or the other, he was randomly afraid of them and now he's not.

For trashcans I would stand next to the trashcan until he was calm, and then ask him to come closer. He still isn't too sure about them, but last time I walked him on trash day, I walked all around our trashcan and he was fine with it. He was also frightened by a pinwheel on a walk, and I stood next to it until he calmed down enough to investigate it and decide it wasn't going to eat him.

For cars, which is one I'm not sure I want completely gone, when a car passes us on the street I ask him to sit off to the side of the road. But he's around cars (going to training, going on errands, riding in the car, etc).

When people approach him (depending on the situation) he'll either back up, hide, run to the end of the leash away from the person, or pee on himself. I usually try to tell people that he is fearful and that it's best for him if they just ignore him. I don't try to pressure him into being pet, I just want him to sit nicely around people. Some people will stay around and talk to us and then try to get him to sniff them, which is fine. And he's better than he used to be. He used to see people and run away, now he'll cautiously come up and sniff people if they aren't paying attention to him, or if they offer him a hand to sniff, he'll stretch out and sniff it then retreat. When new people come to the house I've tried several ways to make him more comfortable with them (though I have no idea if any of these ideas worked particularly well) including: walking the dog while people are coming in and letting him greet them in the driveway or in the house on the return from the walk. Letting people in the house and then taking them outside to see the dog, who would then be allowed inside. Letting people in the house and then letting the dog in the house. And introducing people to the dog by coming around from the front of the house in the yard (this way absolutely does not work, but I know why it doesn't work now).
 

aDorkable

The list of what Misha is afraid of is very long. He's afraid of things from people to hats to green trashcans (the kind you put out on the street) to cars. He's afraid of people approaching him - in pretty much any fashion.

He's not so afraid of hats anymore - I didn't do anything one way or the other, he was randomly afraid of them and now he's not.

For trashcans I would stand next to the trashcan until he was calm, and then ask him to come closer. He still isn't too sure about them, but last time I walked him on trash day, I walked all around our trashcan and he was fine with it. He was also frightened by a pinwheel on a walk, and I stood next to it until he calmed down enough to investigate it and decide it wasn't going to eat him.

For cars, which is one I'm not sure I want completely gone, when a car passes us on the street I ask him to sit off to the side of the road. But he's around cars (going to training, going on errands, riding in the car, etc).

When people approach him (depending on the situation) he'll either back up, hide, run to the end of the leash away from the person, or pee on himself. I usually try to tell people that he is fearful and that it's best for him if they just ignore him. I don't try to pressure him into being pet, I just want him to sit nicely around people. Some people will stay around and talk to us and then try to get him to sniff them, which is fine. And he's better than he used to be. He used to see people and run away, now he'll cautiously come up and sniff people if they aren't paying attention to him, or if they offer him a hand to sniff, he'll stretch out and sniff it then retreat. When new people come to the house I've tried several ways to make him more comfortable with them (though I have no idea if any of these ideas worked particularly well) including: walking the dog while people are coming in and letting him greet them in the driveway or in the house on the return from the walk. Letting people in the house and then taking them outside to see the dog, who would then be allowed inside. Letting people in the house and then letting the dog in the house. And introducing people to the dog by coming around from the front of the house in the yard (this way absolutely does not work, but I know why it doesn't work now).

 

You have tried all these different ways to introduce him to new people, but have you now picked one procedure and are sticking to it? What reward does he get for not acting fearful/facing his fear? Are there any other dogs in the house that are NOT fearful that he gets along with? From this post it seems he is making progress, correct, or no? (If I am misreading I apologize). How did you get Misha? What were the circumstances?

Hi ADork,

I can not stress enough of making a place for the dog where the dog feels safe and secure and is given time to adjust to ONE new fearful thing or situation at a time.  If that means the dog does not leave the property until the dog can handle it then that is how it has to be.   I also want to point out that with fear anxiety the dog internally releases these stress hormones that are suppose to help the dog cope.  These hormones are meant to make the dog more aware and cautious in the next encounter.  And, they stay in the body for days.  So for a dog who is constantly in a fear mode, overload will cause the dog's behavior to become unpredictable. 

With people, you are the bridge.  The dogs needs to be in its safe surroundings and see you comfortable with the people first.  If you get a reaction by the dog where the dog comes over to sniff, take that as an accomplishment and then nonchalently sweetly praise and then something good drops from the heavens.  Expect nothing further from the dog.  Remember the dog has to overcome its own fear and when the opportunity presents itself make it a positive experience.

I read thread about the garbage can fear.  Was that you?

SirDrake,

He's an only dog right now, but he does do infinitely better when he goes out with his non-fearful dog friends. He'll focus on the other dog and how they're reacting and not so much on the people. For going out and being good (ie. being relatively calm and listening while out) he usually gets to come inside and chill afterwards and gets a good treat. But since switching his diet, I can no longer give him Greenies which are his absolute favorite. Right now for introduction he meets people in the house, but he is not forced to stay in the same room with them, he can stay near me or in other rooms where he's more comfortable.

He is making progress, but it seems like two steps forward and three steps back right now. We got Misha from one of Papa's neighbors when he was 8 weeks old. He stayed with Papa in GA until he was about 5 months old. Then he came and lived with us, was sent back to stay in GA, and is now here for good. I know it seems like he's been bounced around a lot, but that was the way I could work it out at the time. He always stayed with the same family and there were always other dogs that he'd been introduced to before, which is better for him not being an only dog.

DPU,

Right now he is in beginner class at PetSmart right now and so he has to go out to that. I also try to take him out to the same store and his favorite store once a week. I do praise him when he sniffs people and expect nothing else but showing interest in people instead of fear right now. I don't think I posted about garbage can fear... but maybe I did, I'm not sure I remember.
 

DPU

No quick answers here because from my experience the dog has to work out its own fear and in its own time.  This can take a long time from a couple of months to a year, given the owners diligent effort.

-------------------- 

For me I work on making the home very friendly and free of scarey things.  In that environment you can work on confidence building and trust.  I say this because you don't state what the dog is afraid of.  I would also work from vantage point of things the dog is not afraid of and slowly introduce things the dog is afraid of at a distance.  This creates a conflict in the dog but you can control that conflict by the proximate of the scarey thing. 

I've snippeted DPU's post but this has been my experience as well.  When I got Kenya almost a year ago, I was told she was a calm, reserved dog and had a Scary Thing happen to her with a previous owner.  They did not deal with the Scary Thing appropriately (pushed a little too hard, too soon to try to "help" her recover) and it made it worse, so by the time I got her she was skittish of many things, and borderline what I would call a fearful, nervy dog.  I've used this example before, but one of the first times we took her on a walk I stepped on a dead leaf or a stick and the little snap noise would make her jump and whirl around on the end of the leash.  She was pretty withdrawn and avoided a lot of things and people when I got her.  It was hearthbreaking, but we were committed to giving her another chance.

The first thing that helped, maybe the most of all, was structure.  Meals at the same time, same place, same amount every day.  Potty at the same time in the same place.  Going on regular "routes" for our walks.  Very quickly she learned that she did not have to worry about having basic needs met, and being able to predict where and when these would happen, she didn't have to stress over that anymore.

The second thing was we gave her a lot of space, as DPU mentioned.  Being the new dog, it was difficult not to saturate her with praise, affection, toys, and games because everyone wanted to play with her, but we asked people to please ignore her and only acknowledge her or treat her if she made the first move on her own.  For the first few months, she did not know who she trusted.  By giving her space, we let her observe the people who are in her life.  Like I said, one of the reasons the Scary Thing became such a big deal to her was that the previous owner coddled her and showered her with so much affection she became even more scared of that person. 

Third, again as DPU mentions, it takes a LOT of time.  The amount really depends on the dog, and also depends on the thing/person.  There are still a few people Kenya is leery of, even a year later, but for the most part she is now more engaged and social and will greet people on her own.  Because of the Scary Thing, she is most likely to be nervous of large men.  She is less accepting of DH than she is of my training friend, simply because my friend is female.  At first she wanted nothing to do with DH, but now she will follow him around for treats, go to him for getting scratched behind the ears, and even jump up on him if he says she can.  She has always been and will always be a one person dog that bonds with a female, but she has come along way.  It took a year.  When I first got her I barely trusted her enough to bring her to a pet store.  Now she has recently passed the CGC 3 times, the Therapy Dog Int'l exam, the West MI Therapy Dogs evaluation, and the ATTS Temperament Test.  When I first got her I didn't think any of these were possible.  I've taken her to half a dozen different trainers and behaviorist that don't know me, because I want continual feedback from an outside/objective perspective.  That is why anytime a CGC test is offered, we take it to see where she's at and get feedback from the evaluator.

Fourth, going along with what DPU says, make sure you manage your home so that there is some place where he feels safe and secure.  Giving him space and structure will help with this.  Look for things that seem to bring out the best in him and focus on that.  When I first got Kenya we had this plan to slowly and systematically desensitize her to the scary things, but that just didn't work.  What worked was focusing on what made her happy and confident, not what made her scared.  The more we build her confidence and trust, the less scary the scary things are.  So many things scared her at first, but I never desensitized her to each one.  I found little games or things that she liked and developed that.  Just working on overall confidence has made most of the things that scare her extinct.

One last thing, DPU says "work from the vantage point of the dog."  I totally agree.  If you try to figure out WHY things scare him, you will get frustrated very quickly.  The reason doesn't matter, all that matters is that the dog perceives the thing as scary and X-reaction follows.  I will never understand why the Scary Thing was so damaging to Kenya, especially since with me she has experienced things that *I* certainly find a lot more scary and she didn't even react to.  What matters is that it happened, it scared her enough to be a big issue in her life, and it needed a lot of work.  Just accept it for what it is and move from there. 

Both what SirDrakeof theCreel and DPU are telling you is true ... but let me see if I can break it down to 'reality' a little bit more.

first off -- PetSmart is probably a really *bad* idea.  Training is good, *but* not in a high fear, high anxiety environment.  Because altho he might learn one 'new' thing, the whole trip is SO high stress for him that it sets him way back.

The hard part about this for you is that it requires ultimate patience - VERY slow training.  One tiny little thing at a time.  Play with him at home -- rather than taking him out of the house on excursions that will heighten his fear.  Limit his exposure to people --

No I'm not saying not to work on his issues.  What we're telling you is to literally work on ONE thing ... one tiny, small, very minute thing at a time.  If you have a friend over **for the purpose of helping Misha** then work on just that.  Otherwise keep Misha in a "safe place" (a crate or where ever you have established a 'safe' zone for this dog).

 In other words trying to turn every outing into 'training' isn't good.  It swamps the dog with fear.  It makes the dog afraid of ***everything*** constantly and more and more unpredictable behavior will result. 

"But it will take FOREVER" -- yes, it honestly will. But if you want to keep this dog and help it be whole and mentally healthy that's how you have to do it. 

 If you take things one tiny step at a time you will make progress.  REAL progress (not the 2 steps forward and 3 steps back kind -- and that is *really* no progress at all if you figure it out!)

But yes, it means that the dog has to miss out on potential "fun".  But look at it from the dog's point of view.  If every time you go out you're afraid -- you're sick to your tummy sort of fear, you know your humans are upset with you and exasperated and you feel like not only are you afraid of *everyting* but you aren't pleasing your humans as well?

That's harsh!  That's NOT fun.   That's torture. 

This is why everyone is recommending you do things very slowly.  You only take the dog to new places where you can control **ALL** that goes on.  Not PetSmart where strange dogs that are aggressive may zoom around a corner or where small children may leap at the dog and try to scare it or pet it improperly. 

YOU can't control anything in a public place like that.

Let me say it this way -- you probably have a whole list of things in your own mind that you'd like to do with *your* dog.  going to a park, PetSmart, meeting friends and having a party or get together. 

But for ***your*** dog -- those things aren't fun right now.  They are scarey.  How would you feel if your friends or your mate only wanted to do things THEY thought were fun but never things you were comfortable with?

What if you were afraid to swim and all your friends wanted to go to water parks, pools, ponds and kayaking!!

Yes, you might try to work on your fear, BUT you wouldn't want them to turn every outing into a nag-fest trying to FORCE you to be UN-afraid and making you generally feel horrible before you got home? 

then, before you got a chance to address the swimming issue, your friends/mate wanted to do something else that scared you (maybe going to catch snakes, or playing in traffic? or  some other thing that you really didn't enjoy). 

What if every single time you got together with your friends and your mate THEY wanted to force you to "work on your issues" ALL the time, but you never got to relax and do things in your own time?

As humans, we can logic our way thru things and can be a bit more successful in dealing with our fears so the comparison really doesn't hold true.  A dog isn't in control of their environment when they live with humans.  They can't 'choose' to do or not do a thing.

Instead, they have to trust you to take care of them. 

Am I making any sense?  Slowing down to train these issues one small thing at a time means it will likely take years to bring this dog to normalcy.  It's a long term project.  But it can be done.  With *patience*.  But it can't be done in time for the Labor Day picnic, or to go to the dog park with friends. 

Forcing the issue will likely bring an end to the relationship really quickly.  You will likely wind up giving up the dog and the dog will either wind up euthanized or in a very difficult situation with little understanding or love. 

It's obvious you are stressed about this -- and it can be difficult to work your way thru it.  "I just want him to be normal!!" -- that's what we all want.  But the road to normalcy is usually one that you have to travel slowly and carefully. 

I hope I'm making sense to you.  I'm not meaing to be         condescending -- only helpful.

Thanks both Lies and Callie, I knew I'd get some really good detailed advice on dealing with fraidy dogs from one of you (or both). I'm going to finish out the class at PetSmart since we're already half-way through it. He does well when he's in the training area. But after that, it will be limited people related outings. I'll still take him to his favorite store (almost nothing in there is scary anymore, and that took months), and I'll take him on solitary hikes.

It's hard for me to really find something he likes and work on that because there's so little he seems to like. If he likes fetching the frisbee one day, he's afraid of it the next (no idea why flying frisbee is now scary or uninteresting). If he likes football today, he might not tomorrow. He more or less thinks fetch is stupid. He thinks chase is awesome. That's pretty much it. Chase and woods. I don't know how much of that I can incorporate or work on so that it helps him. He has two areas at our house that are his safe places - his crate and his kennel outside.

Callie, I know exactly what you're talking about with making him face his fears - I have social anxiety (which is getting worse... yay me) and so even for me going into public is hard. I don't know if he's picking up on that and it's making it worse. I know that when I'm out with him I'm more comfortable around people, partly because he's so uncomfortable now. I want to be able to take him places because it helps me in dealing with people, but now I'm having to try to figure out how to help him with the same issues I have. So I really do know how uncomfortable it is for him.

Lies, I think it's a good point that I don't need to try to figure out why things are scary. Just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it isn't REALLY SCARY for him.

I know it will take a long time to get him to "normal", and I'm willing to deal with that, sure not the dream I had for him, but I need to fix the problems I created with him and not make them worse or pawn him off on someone else.

Thanks to everyone who has given or will give me advice. 

aDorkable

I don't know if he's picking up on that and it's making it worse. I know that when I'm out with him I'm more comfortable around people, partly because he's so uncomfortable now. I want to be able to take him places because it helps me in dealing with people, but now I'm having to try to figure out how to help him with the same issues I have.

You honestly may have nailed your own problem!

• Yes, he probably is picking up on your anxiety.  That would be very typical -- so examining your own emotional state and dealing with that will be paramount to helping him. 
• This could also be why he enjoys something today and not tomorrow -- either he's picking up on emotional issues from you, OR he smells someone/something around that he thinks may make you uncomfortable.  He may be actually trying to remove you from the situation!
• Change how you take him -- be more verbal with him "Help me go to the store will ya?? YOU give me confidence!!"  Reward his brave behavior.  Even just go to the mailbox with him and tell him how awesome HE was to make you feel better!!  "Hey buddy, I need you!!" and then be sure to tell him after that he gave YOU confidence.
• I'd get a book on tracking ... something you can do AT HOME with him.  This is a confidence builder -- create something that ONLY **he** can do.  Then use it to demonstrate his awesome abilities -- start **very** slowly with this -- at home with just a close friend he knows and demonstrate something really simple that he can 'find' with tracking.  Then go a bit further field - outside in your yard, then just beyond your yard ... in the car (but with the car in your own driveway) -- just take it really slow.  But by helping him create something only *he* can do you will be creating confidence and success for him.
• Try keeping a diary of these stuff -- he liked frisbee yesterday and not today .... write down what you can remember of your feelings the first time, and then how you feel today.  Get to the point where you write down all the 'new' things you do with him -- things he likes, so you can compare them with the next time you do them.  If you write down how *you* also felt it will give you insight later.
• When he appears not to 'enjoy' a thing he's liked before stop and take mental stock of your own feelings ... and say "Hey -- you trying to tell ME to lighten up??"
• You may actually have a companion dog in the making here -- when he's focused on you see if it  is that he's trying to help you avoid tension?

I really like Callie's ideas. Like I said - when he lived down here if I was the slightest bit upset he would act up, but when I was content he was generally easy to work with. I really like the journal idea. I think he is afraid of new people, but he might also be feeding off of you.

Thanks again Callie!

(I always did want to try tracking with him.) The diary's a good idea - maybe I can double that as a food journal to figure out what the dog and I are allergic to... I hadn't really thought that he might be trying to protect me from something, or get me away from it, so I'd never approached it that way.

Do you guys think its a good idea to take him to PetSmart for his classes a little early so he can get used to being there before having to concentrate, or should I just bring him in for the class? So far I've been bringing him in about 15 minutes early, am I doing more harm than good? (Perhaps allowing him to get stressed out before going to class?) 

Hey there.  I wonder if there's any way we can get together and I can work with you one-on-one some?  There's things I noticed about him, that I think I can show you in person way better than I can even attempt to communicate over the internet.

I am going to be in Winston-Salem Mon through Thursday of next week.  I'll be out of town on the weekend and then free the week after. 

I would love to do that, but it is a three hour drive (one way) for me. (And... I think next week or the week after I'm going on vacation - with the dog - and alittleoffkey is coming up on Wed.) Maybe we could work something out for August, but I'm not sure since I have to go back to school.