Anticipation and Excitement...

DPU

No one has commented on my distinction between Anticipation and Expectation and the difference between the two is one contains anxiety

I did and you crapped all over me and intimated that I can't comment on this topic because I have one dog and one cat and don't rescue numerous dogs, live in north Texas, which is south of Indiana, and I dare to use positive reinforcement training, in a thread that wasn't about rescue at all.

So, in the sense of you trying to make me a persona non grata, then yes, maybe no one has replied to your question since you do not consider my response a valid one. Welcome to the DPU forum.

DPU

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

I am truly interested in the answer, yet you seem unable to give me one???

Please read my prior post, just one back for your answer.

 

You mentioned the dog being poisoned and that is a real concern to me.  I think it is an urgent matter. 

No, actually it is not an answer. I believe the question I asked was "How would you handle a dog that when it WANTS to go outside jumps up in the owners face?" (If that is not the exact question I apologize, but you get the idea) You have yet to answer that question. I want to know what you would DO, not what you think is wrong with the dog.

I will read the post when I have a moment. I said there is the possibility of water poisoning in a dog that does this habitually. I thought you said you rehabilitated him? If so, why are you worried, is he still drinking tremendous amounts of water or is he rehabilitated? Nevermind....I'll the thread when I have a minute. I am not ignoring it, I am in the process of packing since we are moving and I just check in here every little while.....Don't have time to read the whole thing right now.

But as for the first paragraph.....I would very much like to hear your real answer.

ron2

DPU

No one has commented on my distinction between Anticipation and Expectation and the difference between the two is one contains anxiety

I did and you crapped all over me and intimated that I can't comment on this topic because I have one dog and one cat and don't rescue numerous dogs, live in north Texas, which is south of Indiana, and I dare to use positive reinforcement training, in a thread that wasn't about rescue at all.

So, in the sense of you trying to make me a persona non grata, then yes, maybe no one has replied to your question since you do not consider my response a valid one. Welcome to the DPU forum.

 

I did as well, but I will repeat in case you missed it??

"Anticipation does NOT= anxiety and your theory that the risk is there is a possibility ONLY when the interruption of behavior is done incorrectly or carelessly ie; you have asked too much of the dog too soon. So your fear of doing so and assertion and certainty that it WILL happen has me questioning your training methods."  

I've read all the posts, and don't see any answers either. Are they in code? JK! Maybe you can point them out to the more dense among us. Specifically the parts of your posts that are answering the questions, not just a vague "read my previous posts and your questions will be answered", 'cause I'm not getting it.

I also reject the premise that anticipation equals anxiety. Anticipation can be a happy state. I can see how expectation might create anxiety - if you set up your dog to expect that any time he appears interested in food he'll get some, what happens when for some reason you can't give him more? Because the food you have (chocolate?) is bad for dogs, because they dog is overweight and needs to trim down, because the dog needs to be fasted for blood work or surgery, or because he's been vomiting and his digestive system needs a rest?

If a dog learns that although he always gets what he NEEDS, sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't get what he WANTS, he'll adapt to that. And if he learns that he needs to behave in a certain calm controlled way, he can have what he wants, but if he's wild and unruly, or pushy and persistant, he won't, he'll adapt to that too. Pretty quickly, in my experience, so I don't see how that would throw them into some awful state of perpetual stress, which I completely agree is a harmful state.

I want to address the "dogs do what works thing". DPU, you say this is just an excuse. I've never heard anyone offer it as an excuse before, and frankly, I don't understand how it could be used that way. An excuse for what?

I see it as a statement of fact, an explanation of how dogs learn. If a dog learns that jumping on people works to get him attention he will continue to do so. If a dog learns that he will be ignored if he jumps on people, but sitting calmly and politely works to get him attention he'll do that instead. How is that a harmful process for a dog? When you raise dogs from puppies these are important things to teach them, because dogs that don't learn basic manners and obedience are the ones that end up in shelters.

So you as a human you do not recognize the difference between Anticipation and Expectation, thats understandable.  I believe a dog does and I know this because it is key in rehab to closely observe a dog's behavior as the dog reactions to stimuli

ron2

DPU

No one has commented on my distinction between Anticipation and Expectation and the difference between the two is one contains anxiety

I did and you crapped all over me and intimated that I can't comment on this topic because I have one dog and one cat and don't rescue numerous dogs, live in north Texas, which is south of Indiana, and I dare to use positive reinforcement training, in a thread that wasn't about rescue at all.

So, in the sense of you trying to make me a persona non grata, then yes, maybe no one has replied to your question since you do not consider my response a valid one. Welcome to the DPU forum.

I was just doing a tease and was hoping you would be laughing at your end.  It has been a long while since I read the "one dog and one cat" that use to be in your sig.  I also remember the ribbing I gave you by referring to you as the "man from the south" in the PTS thread. 

After I posted, I did realize you commented and I probably should have edited with "save one".  Your comments were appreciated but once again I was trying to make a point for the better of the dog that I think others minimize and ignore.  I can't tell you how it feels to see, experience, and feel for a dog that reacts to slightest negatives in training because it has a sensitve psyche.  Most dogs do very well and cope but I am the champion for the ones that don't cope well.

Liesje

DPU

If I suspect the dog craved human affection and the dog shaped unwanted behavior to get it, I would address the craving and not directly address the unwanted behavior.  With the craving, want, or need satisfied...the dog has no need to do the unwanted behavior....it just simply disappears....that is my experience. 

 

Right, but if he is given affection while lunging at people, that is what you are saying before - the human's fault for rewarding and encouraging that heightened level of excitement that is inappropriate for the dog.  Since I do not believe that reaction is healthy, I do not reward it.  The dog gets plenty of affection, just not when lunging at people. 

I do not agree that if we were to reward the lunging with affection, the lunging would disappear.  He has not been rewarded for lunging and thus it is extinct.  I believe that if he was given affection for lunging, we'd still have that behavior today.  Now he gets rewarded for a few alert barks and a wagging tail.

Of course he would! All the affection in the world would do absolutely nothing to teach him that jumping on people is unacceptable behavior. Unaddressed bad behavior allowed to continue does not go away. It only goes away if it stops working to get him what he wants and something else works better.

Sometimes dogs do things just because it's fun, or because nobody bothered to (or perhaps knew how to) teach them that it wasn't okay. Has DPU ever raised a dog from a puppy? They're a total blank slate, knowing only how to be a dog, which means to dig, to chew, to bite, to bark, to eliminate whenever and wherever - we must teach them how to behave in an acceptable manner. Giving in to their every whim is not how to accomplish that, and in fact, will do the exact opposite.
 

Cassidys Mom

I also reject the premise that anticipation equals anxiety. Anticipation can be a happy state. I can see how expectation might create anxiety - if you set up your dog to expect that any time he appears interested in food he'll get some, what happens when for some reason you can't give him more? Because the food you have (chocolate?) is bad for dogs, because they dog is overweight and needs to trim down, because the dog needs to be fasted for blood work or surgery, or because he's been vomiting and his digestive system needs a rest?

If a dog learns that although he always gets what he NEEDS, sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't get what he WANTS, he'll adapt to that. And if he learns that he needs to behave in a certain calm controlled way, he can have what he wants, but if he's wild and unruly, or pushy and persistant, he won't, he'll adapt to that too. Pretty quickly, in my experience, so I don't see how that would throw them into some awful state of perpetual stress, which I completely agree is a harmful state.

I want to address the "dogs do what works thing". DPU, you say this is just an excuse. I've never heard anyone offer it as an excuse before, and frankly, I don't understand how it could be used that way. An excuse for what?

I see it as a statement of fact, an explanation of how dogs learn. If a dog learns that jumping on people works to get him attention he will continue to do so. If a dog learns that he will be ignored if he jumps on people, but sitting calmly and politely works to get him attention he'll do that instead. How is that a harmful process for a dog? When you raise dogs from puppies these are important things to teach them, because dogs that don't learn basic manners and obedience are the ones that end up in shelters.

Thank you for expressing your opposing views directly toward me.  Please re-read my posts and whatever questions you have are answered in them. 

Please answer the question about what you would do to teach a dog that is jumping up in it's owner's face in excitement to go for a walk. (I assure you I have read all of your previous posts in this thread and this answer is not present.)

Then, please tell me that you are not suggesting that you are the only one who is a champion to dogs who do not cope well.

Cassidys Mom

Of course he would! All the affection in the world would do absolutely nothing to teach him that jumping on people is unacceptable behavior. Unaddressed bad behavior allowed to continue does not go away. It only goes away if it stops working to get him what he wants and something else works better.

Sometimes dogs do things just because it's fun, or because nobody bothered to (or perhaps knew how to) teach them that it wasn't okay. Has DPU ever raised a dog from a puppy? They're a total blank slate, knowing only how to be a dog, which means to dig, to chew, to bite, to bark, to eliminate whenever and wherever - we must teach them how to behave in an acceptable manner. Giving in to their every whim is not how to accomplish that, and in fact, will do the exact opposite. 

I suggest you re-read "If a Dog's Prayer Were Answered Bones Would Rain from the Sky", Chapter 10.  My interpretation is the resolve was all about the relationship and the dishing out of affection.  Affection is very effective in modifying a dog's behavior.

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

Then, please tell me that you are not suggesting that you are the only one who is a champion to dogs who do not cope well.

Your answer can be found in previous posts. 

I am still concerned about the poison in Sampson.  Is it slow working? 

With all this denial, it may appear that way but I doubt it.

DPU

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

Then, please tell me that you are not suggesting that you are the only one who is a champion to dogs who do not cope well.

Your answer can be found in previous posts. 

WHERE???? SHOW ME, PLEASE

I am still concerned about the poison in Sampson.  Is it slow working?

Now you're just purposely baiting me. Google it. 

With all this denial, it may appear that way but I doubt it.

I can assure you that you are not the only one here, and the denial is yours as far as I can tell, although if you would answer a question with a straight answer I'd happily change that opinion. Now please show me where that question is answered so I can stop sounding like a broken record.

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

Now you're just purposely baiting me. Google it. 

No!  You mentioned poison and poison was not mentioned by the vet, behaviorist, or anyone who contributed to that thread.  You mentioned poison and implied I was doing it all wrong and your method would be different.  I don't understand how someone can mention a dog being poisoned and then not rush to help.  I take members at face value so this really puzzles me.  Members here help one another and drop all differences when it comes to helping a dog, especially in life threatening situation.

sidenote:  poison your dog is mentioned quite often in the nutrition section.....but this is quite serious and I don't understand the delay in helping. 

Thank you, I am not longer concerned.