Anticipation and Excitement...

I feel the same. Neither of my boys show any type of behavior that I would consider something that needs to be changed. Drake, my Golden Retriever who is a working water fowl retriever, gets excited when he sees his hunting vest and his camo leash. He will wait by the door, tongue lolling, tail wagging, waiting to be allowed to go to work. This is not a behavior that I have 'used' to get something from him, but a behavior that he exhibits in his own excitement to go to work. I see nothing wrong with it as he is not out of control, bouncing off the walls, spinning around, resistant to commands, or otherwise obsessive about it. He is excited and I'm glad he is. It is good to know that I have a dog that enjoys his work and looks forward to it. Perhaps some will say that I am humanizing him. Okay then, fine. But my boys are very well rounded and well-trained. They were trained with kindness, trust, and consistency and exhibit no 'bad' behaviors like resource guarding or counter surfing and they do not exhibit any of the behaviors thought of as "dominating" over me or any member of my family. I don't think it is necessary to have a dog live only for the human and for everything else to be of lesser value. That is my opinion only, but if he loves his vest, great, and if he loves a certain toy great. If I want that beloved toy he will relinquish it to me without thought, as he will food or anything else.....because he trusts me, and that is the best relationship I can have with my dogs, IMO.

I don't see it as unfair.  I'm not asking my dog to do something she doesn't understand how to do to get what she wants.  THAT would be unfair, in my opinion. 

I feel that if she's stressed because the door is not opening fast enough for her, she knows if she puts her butt down it will.  Doesn't that relieve any stress?  I'm not sure I understand how that stress would be relieved in a dog that doesn't use the NILIF protocol.  I only see one other alternative and that's the dog gets whatever it wants when it wants even if it's acting obnoxious and that's not the way I would like to live. 

Lori

 Every morning, I get up, potty and feed the dogs, then start to get ready for work. When my shoes are on and my smock is in my hand, Emma starts to get goofy. Her tail wiggles, she grins, she moves a little faster. I'll grab whatever collar and slip it over her head, and she runs over, slams the door with her front feet, and sits on the mat. I finish grabbing breakfast, keys, the puppy, and we go.

She's definitely conditioned to be happy about leaving, but I don't find any of her behavior unacceptable. The puppy spins in circles when she's excited, and it drives me nuts, but she's not trained enough to have a "settle" command, yet.

I don't think its a bad thing for our dogs to be conditioned to get excited.  I want my dogs to be full of joy and love life.  I too enjoy finding things that bring joy to my dog's life.

What I don't want is the opposite, just like everyone else.  I don't want them to get out of control and jumping up on me or others when the leashes come out (for example).  And, my dogs have been conditioned NOT to do so.

They see the leashes, and I get two different reactions.  Buddy's eyes get wide open and his ears perk up.  He also does a little bit of a happy dance with anticipation.  Definately, I can deal with that.  Heidi is indifferent to my picking up of the leashes...but she does make her way directly to the gate and waits nicely for me to put it on.

I have found a new joy for Buddy's life which actually was a pleasant surprise.  I have recently started going to the dog park with the intent of getting Heidi more socialization around other dogs.  I have discovered that Buddy is quite the socialite.  He loves the dog park.  He loves meeting the dogs and has the best time initiating or accepting invitations of meet and greet.  Who'da thunk it.  But, another joyful activity has been added to his r'epertoire. 

I also am happy to see Heidi's excitement to receive her favorite reward after a training session or a grooming session.  She lives to play Chuckit.  She is excited with the anticipation of playing her favorite game.  Admittedly, we are working on the manic and obsessive behaviors with this exciting game...but we are making progress.

So, yeah...anticipation and excitement can be a great thing for our dogs to be the happiest they can be.

Are there "excited" reactions that ARE inappropriate and should not be reinforced?  I think so.  Sometimes the dogs are so excited for me to be home, I stand outside the house for a few minutes and wait for them to settle.  They did this yesterday, even though DH was home and had already taken them out.  I don't want to reinforce the nutso behavior, so I stand outside and wait.  Yesterday, I waited until Kenya sat down (I don't require sits, but she went from jumping around straight into a sit), I moved towards the door and she got really excited again, so I stopped in my tracks and she backed up and sat down again.  I went inside, praised her and scratched her, and out we all went.  I guess my limits on excitement mainly deal with safety.  I often come home with my arms full of techie equipment (laptops, camera parts, etc) and it's just not safe to have a dog knock into me and spill that stuff all over.  I don't mind a little barking, some dancing around, wagging tails...but I guess I draw the line at excessive spinning, non-stop barking, and any sort of lunging or jumping.  This applies to people coming in the door, going out to the car, waiting for dinner to be served, waiting for toys to come out, etc.

But again, I don't believe ALL excited reactions are bad and should be discouraged, just those that are a safety concern or put the dog in a manic state. 

willowchow

I feel that if she's stressed because the door is not opening fast enough for her, she knows if she puts her butt down it will.  Doesn't that relieve any stress? 

Ditto, well said! Your not hurting your dogs feelings by asking them to act appropriately to get something they want. You wouldnt tolerate a child jumping all over you like a spazz when it was time to go to the park but obvious joy at the prospect of leaving is great and a bit different then allowing them to act out. You also have to consider the safety issue. If your dog is rushing to get out of the door they could knock you over, run into the street and could be a gateway for other unwanted behavior like pulling out of excitment of the walk. Its just bad conduct all around. I have two large dogs and I am a small person. If I allowed them to spazz out during walk time I would be pushed over. Thats not to say I dont olerate some excitement.

When I've been lagging on taking them for a walk Rory will walk over to where her leash hangs from the hook by the door and swing it with her nose. I ask her "do you wanna go for a walk", by this time Primo jumps up and they both start doing the two step, LOL. I usually laugh, put my shoes on while they zoom around a bit BUT as soon as I grab those leashes their butts hit the floor. They wait for me to open the door, walk through and call them out so I can close and lock the door, they wait patiently because they know I wont go until they have setteled.

So I think its a fine line between allowing excitment and unruleyness. Its not a matter of who's boss and me showing my uptight superiority, its respect for the team we are. I dont see NILIF as a way to lord over my dogs but like any pack their is a hierarchy that is implemented for the health and safet of us as a whole. If I allowed their excitement to bowl over they would pull me around the neighborhood and where would it stop?

Same with food. I know some of you have seen my video of feeding time, I cant allow them to jump all over me while I'm preparing their food, I dont want to build excitment that may instill high anxiety in either of them which could easily result in resource guarding.....its safety first!

I don't think the excitement thing is even unique to NILIF.  My uncle does very little training and what little he does is mostly using corrections and punishments (he SHOULD try NILIF), and I have never seen a dog that gets soooo excited about her duck decoy (she's a retriever).  In fact, her level of excitement borders on what I would consider inappropriate.  The drive needs to be reinforced and encouraged, but I think he could do it without her lunging and snapping at people's hands and faces when the decoy comes out.

Absolutely there are excited reactions that are not acceptable to me, and when I see them (in my own dog or in someone else's) I work on bringing it down to an acceptable level. My requirements are much the same as yours. No lunging, no jumping, no spinning, no body slamming of fences, doors, or anything else (I say this because I often see dogs who will not "jump" on a person as they've been taught not to, but will body slam the person in the calves/knees/thighs whatever while keeping all 4 on the floor and that is dangerous as well), non-stop excited barking (alarm barking is acceptable until investigated by myself or hubby), absolutely NO mouthing of a human under ANY circumstances! But those are all safety issues and/or put the dog in a state where it will not respond to or 'hear' commands.

Liesje

  The drive needs to be reinforced and encouraged, but I think he could do it without her lunging and snapping at people's hands and faces when the decoy comes out.

Definitely this falls under what I would consider to be dangerous and unacceptable bahavior that needs to be tempered down....

My dogs get really excited when we are about to play a good game of fetch.....the rest of the time they show excitement, but not to the point of it being an issue......I leave the house and never even say anything, they just watch me leave....same thing with coming home, I never pay attention to my dogs, I walk in put up what needs to be put up without any fuss........

Most definately agree there are limits...and they come to understand once they have been conditioned.

Liesje

(I don't require sits, but she went from jumping around straight into a sit)

I'm sure she learned that you aren't going to move forward until she settles and sits down...conditioning.

 This is a good topic of discussion, how much Anticipation and Excitement should be allowed during an execution of a behavior chain that results in the dog having a most pleasurable experience.  I submit that during such an event, the dog's happy/excited behavior will be the norm until the human influences or builds more excitement.  I am surprised by the responses that goes like this "if the dog gets too excited and becomes obnoxious,  that behavior will stop"... and at the emotional expense of the dog.  I am also surprised that the responses are reactive and not proactive...what caused this behavior and why is the dog behaving like this?  The human somehow fails to realize they created and influenced the escalation of the behavior.  It may be by momentarily preventing the dog from completing the chain, inadvertently teasing, or introducing other triggers that would get the dog more excited. 

But in that other  thread, my point was is it fair to interrupt this pleasurable behavior chain by introducing behavior modification/training.  In my example, the trigger for the WANT is the sight of the collar and the WANT is a car ride.  It is a given that the happy/excited behavior is acceptable.  Since the dog is in a WANT mode and in high drive to get that want, is it fair for me to take advantage of that WANT by "making" the dog rollover as a trick before we continue in the chain.  But then by creating the interruption to the expected (not anticipated) car ride, the dog has to create other behaviors in order to cope.  Those behaviors may be what the humans wants but I see it as a cost to the relationship.

The last paragraph is probably another thread title...blame the human for creating the unwanted behavior, not the dog. 

DPU

 It may be by momentarily preventing the dog from completing the chain, inadvertently teasing, or introducing other triggers that would get the dog more excited. 

I agree and disagree....I love to see excitment in my dogs. I love to share the joy of walking and the excitment of heading out to go for a walk and I realize they are acting in response to my excitment but I still feel its ok to draw the line at anxiety.....if that makes sense.

I love to walk with Rory and Primo, tails wagging, nose in the air, taking in the sights and smells and I dont feel as if that joy is a direct result of my feelings.

But I'm not arguiung with you, I completely get what your saying and I think training the human is sometimes far more important then training the dog, LOL!

DPU

 I am surprised by the responses that goes like this "if the dog gets too excited and becomes obnoxious,  that behavior will stop"... and at the emotional expense of the dog.  I am also surprised that the responses are reactive and not proactive...what caused this behavior and why is the dog behaving like this?  The human somehow fails to realize they created and influenced the escalation of the behavior.

While I agree with this in many, many cases, I don't think it's always true, or always relevant.  For example, we adopted Coke at age 1.5 and when we first got him he would get overly excited and jump on anyone that came in the door.  I have no idea why, or who conditioned him to do this.  He is from a rescue and we have limited information about his training and were just told that he was neglected and not treated right, so I can only assume that he so craved human affection he was not careful in how he got it, and no one ever taught him any manners.  What's important is that we decided that level of excitement was not appropriate and thus made changes to take it down and notch (would not enter until he stopped jumped, asked visitors NOT to give affection if he jumped on them but to give affection when he was standing or sitting).  Now when people come over, Coke greets them with a violently wagging tail and "four on the floor", no more lunging and jumping.  Kenya was the same way.  When I first got her, she would do these fast spins where she'd jump against the door and then spin off, over and over, and often there was some submissive peeing.  She acted insane and it was very inappropriate.  Again, I did not raise her or do her basic training and socialization so I don't know how or why this behavior came about, all I knew was that it was dangerous, and furthermore (unlike Coke), I did not think it was a good mental state for her, especially the peeing.  We've worked and worked on it and now I will get an occasional lunge or a single spin (like yesterday when I had to wait a minute for her to settle) but most days, thankfully both dogs are just standing at the door with their tails wagging and give me a greeting bark or two.

So I agree that a lot of times people DO reinforce crazy behavior in dogs (especially given the context of the original posts, in the CM thread), but I don't think that it's absolutely necessary the how and why is analyzed in order to change the behaviors.  And I don't think that ALL excitement is unfair or inappropriate.  I think a dog being happy and somewhat excited falls well within a balance mental state.