Anticipation and Excitement...

I introduce a change in petting by doing a few pats on the head. 

oh yeah you're all positive. Most dogs hate being patted on the head- it's a positive punishment pure and simple. 

mudpuppy

I introduce a change in petting by doing a few pats on the head. 

oh yeah you're all positive. Most dogs hate being patted on the head- it's a positive punishment pure and simple. 

Hmmm, I get a good cross sampling of a variety dogs that come to live here for awhile.  And I do watch the behavior of these dogs very very closely....never have I seen a dog react in anyway but positive wihen given a pat on the head.  Same with a hug.  Come to think about, with the sampling I have here, I have never seen a dog HATE.  In the relationships I build with the dogs, HATE is not part of it at all.  I guess the difference between the above comment and me IS the depth of the relationship. 

I am very open to suggestions of doing a behavior modification that is all positive but don't offer one and say there isn't because you may think it is incidental or trivial.  Positive means positive.

Right now, I am experimenting.  My dogs get excited (acceptable level to me) when they see their collar because I have created the expectation that the collar means car ride and they do enjoy a car ride.  I am going to watch and try and measure/guage their level of excitement, their vocal sounds, how easy it is to put their collars on (currently acceptable behavior), their approach to the garage, and their activity level as I open the car door. 

I bring out the collars and the dog immediately react.  Drizzle gets excited, barks and comes quickly to get her collar and Petro is doing circles in the short distance looking back and forth between the garage door and me.  Drizzle is doing some more vocal sounds and Petro comes for his collar.   Both dogs sit for their dressing and fidgety at the same time.  Once dressed, the dog runs back and forth to the garage door and me until we are both at the garage door.  They block the door so I have stretch over them to open the door.  When inside the garge they both sit nicely at the car and wait until the door opens and then hop right in.  We take a nice leisurely drive around the neighborhood and then return home.  I open the car, they come out, go in the yard, drink some water and then lay down.  I put the collars away.

I waited about ten minutes and then went to get the collars.  I bring out the collars and both of them have surprised looks on their face and just stand there for a moment.  Then they started to react and definitely a few degrees lowers.  Not much but less barking, less excitment, collars were easier to put on.  Petro did not do his circles and once the collars were on they stayed around me and followed me to the garage.  Since they were following, no problem in opening the door.

I did the same thing a third time and got a noticeable lesser Excitement behavior.  The dogs were definitely happy, showing excitement but in a more calmer way.  I am going to do this tomorrow and try and guage today's excitement level with tomorrow's first time.  I am giving the dog what the dog wants, giving the dog more than he wants, and the behavior is changing.  I am not sure once the dogs reach a certain level of excitement if I should reward.  I am not sure if the dog would recognize the connection.  But I think I may be effecting the dog's urgency which comes out as excited behavior.  I don't think I see anything but Positive behavior modification in my approach. 

Makes me think of classical conditioning but further experimentation would be interesting. Or, does the excitement account refresh itself the following day? We'll just have to wait and see.

With Shadow, on a day off, he gets excited when I go to the door around 9 am to 10 am because that is normally the time we go for a car ride and walk on my days off. After we come back from all that, I can go to the door again and he's not at all excited. He finds a cool place to lay down. He's already had the fun from early. Though, if I call him to me and grab the leash and harness off the hooks, he can get excited, though maybe not as much. But I'm still not sure if I agree with your definitions of anticipation and excitement. Or is that you view anticipation as a nervous waiting to see what happens and excitement is a knowledge of what is going to happen?

I hate to keep saying it but whether people admit or not or understand the words or not EVERYONE is using operant conditioning when they are interacting with their dogs. Why not just study operant conditioning, really start to understand what exactly it is you are doing, and use the same language as everyone else instead of making up words and making up reason(s) why your techniques work or don't work? Think about the choke-collar trainers who refuse to use food (it's a bribe!),  and insist their dogs are working "to please them", when in actual fact the dogs are working to avoid pain applied to their neck.

mudpuppy

Think about the choke-collar trainers who refuse to use food (it's a bribe!),  and insist their dogs are working "to please them", when in actual fact the dogs are working to avoid pain applied to their neck.

Negative Reinforcement?  Avoidance of a punishment.  The human can certainly define it that way but if the dog defines it differently because of its complex range of emotions, then why not defer to the dog's definition.  Thats seems to be a pretty reasonable accommodation the human can make to the dog and I don't understand why so many refuse to do.  I am using the right words to expand on OC, crossing into the gray areas.  Not recognizing these gray areas and not improving the human understanding of why a dog learns from the dog's perspective is just maintaining a tradition and limiting knowledge. 

Cassidys Mom

Chuffy

It's more than that though - it's a case of "fake it till you make it".  I think that by asking him to EXPRESS calmness, then as he becomes practices at it, he will ACTUALLY be calm, and his "Down" will be a good, "solid" down, not one that puts you in mind of a coiled spring

Thanks for replying to me!

Chuffy, I replied to one of your posts too, back on page 6.  I have only seen a handful of Dog Whisperer shows, they were running a marathon one day when I was home sick, and I saw several back to back, but one of the ones I saw was the Viszla that you referred to. When he was talking about modeling the dog's body language after the posture of a more confident dog It sounded familiar, so I checked, and one of Suzanne Clothier's articles does talk about doing the very same thing. I don't know if this is a technique she was doing before anyone else was, (but it predates CM, so she WAS doing it before him), or if they both got the idea from someone else.

It's sort of like conditioning your dog to offer deferential behaviors - eventually they BECOME deferential.

Yes and if you are having a bad day, try putting a pen in your mouth (like a bit in a horses mouth).  It moves all the right muscles to release the right chemicals in your body to improve your mood. No, I mean realy.