Suggestions for Coke ** NILIF people look at pg 5 **

The collar thing is hard, because, as you said, he has desesatized himself to it from being tied out in his former life.

Can he wear his easy walk in agility class? I used a sensation harness (same thing, but no martingale), until Luna was able to control herself enough to transition to a collar.

Pit_Pointer_Aussie

The collar thing is hard, because, as you said, he has desesatized himself to it from being tied out in his former life.

Can he wear his easy walk in agility class? I used a sensation harness (same thing, but no martingale), until Luna was able to control herself enough to transition to a collar.

Unfortunately not.  My friend came to my class last week and the trainer had her take hers off.  Then on Monday another dog in Coke's class had one and she asked for it to come off.  She says it inhibits their forward motion.  My guess is that b/c we are in beginners and the dogs are still on lead she doesn't want them inadvertently corrected while learning the obstacles. 

I may try a head halter.  I've never used one before, but there was a dog starting in my class wearing some sort of head halter.  The owner was able to loosen it so when the dog was running the course it looked like a collar with an extra bit hanging off. 

I hate that for so many dog's, training is such a Catch 22.  They need to be exposed to these things in order to learn how to behave and become desensitized, but at the same time you don't want to bring them into an environment where you don't have complete control.  With Coke I've learned that there really is no progression for distraction.  He is either in a place he is familiar with or he's not.  He's either really good, or super distracted.  I wish there was some medium that we could work in...

Ugg, I feel for you. It's hard when your choices are limited. Maybe someone else will have another suggestion.

I would be more worried about an inadvertent correction in a head halter than a front-clip harness. That may be related to different training methods too, where a head halter would be in the way for me, it isn't for you and vice versa. (I free shape everything, so Luna can move in any direction she want when first interacting with a new obstacle, which is where the head halter could be problematic for me.)

I'm thinking of trying one in combination with the flat, so when we are taking our turn the leash is on the flat collar (I have some short "tab" leads I could leave on his collar) and use the halter while we are getting instructions and waiting our turn.  Or just parade him around the field on the head halter until he learns to keep his head up and his feet on the ground. 

It might be a pain to switch, but I think that will be better for Coke in the long run.  It's not his fault he was brought up the way he was and it's my responsibility to communicate the "yes" and the "no" more effectively.  When he's actually taking his turn, he's fine on the flat b/c he is excited to run and DO something so he does the obstacles great (and he's very food motivated so for example he does awesome at sitting on the table).  It's the in between time where he's like "why aren't we all running?  why can't we play??!?!?!"

I personally wouldn't let my dogs play with other dogs at an agility training venue- sends entirely the wrong message. You're here to play with MOM. You need to ignore the other dogs. You need to learn to chill out in between playing with MOM.

mudpuppy

I personally wouldn't let my dogs play with other dogs at an agility training venue- sends entirely the wrong message. You're here to play with MOM. You need to ignore the other dogs. You need to learn to chill out in between playing with MOM.

True but we let them all play after, not during.  We live in such a dog UNfriendly place, this is one of the few safe, fenced, private areas where we bring our dogs to play off lead.  I don't have $300 for the dog park (it costs over $300 just for ONE dog membership).  I allow my dogs to play in my home and in my yard and we also do training there or have times when no nonsense is allowed.

Liesje

I may try a head halter.  I've never used one before, but there was a dog starting in my class wearing some sort of head halter.  The owner was able to loosen it so when the dog was running the course it looked like a collar with an extra bit hanging off.

He has a flat collar, an Easy Walk and a prong, this would be his fourth collar, i imagine that you use each for every different situation, i dont think the collar is communicating what you want him to learn 

Liesje

when we let him off with Justin and he started bullying, we were both saying "HEY Coke!!" and sort of body blocking into the dogs and Coke paid zero attention, just kept jumping on Justin.

That was a good approach if it was at the beginning, by the time you decided to do it it was too late, he was already too focused and excited that it was not working anymore, you were basically using a "level 5 redirection" (to name it in some way) for a "level 8 excitement" (to name it in some way), you need a "level 8 or 9 type of redirection" to be successful, that means to do something  that will distract him enough away from the other dog to keep pay attention to him, maybe a touch on the hip with a verbal correction and a body block, if the dog is not looking at you then it wont work, if you do it with a "i hope this works attitude but i dont know" then it wont work either, you really need to mean what you are doing, your body language is reflected in your attitude

Liesje

he was yelled at previously so now that means nothing to him.

That does not mean verbal corrections dont work, which is different from yelling, yelling for the dog means that you are barking along and that only feeds the excitement, you are then feeding what you are trying to avoid

I know its hard but you should not use his name when you are trying to correct him, that would mean that either having his name called means trouble or reward (when you practice recall)  and that confuses the dog, a simple "hey" without yelling will do

The bottom line is to avoid for the dog to get to a point of excitement that will make it hard for you to re direct him after its too late, once you are there body blocks are still useful, but i mean body BLOCKS, like going down a little bit and opening your arms, like he can touch the other dog anymore, and yes maybe that will make you try for 5 minutes until he gets the idea but he will get the idea at the end, and most importantly will learn that when you body block you mean stop, usually some people after only 20 seconds trying to body block they give up and say "this is not working" and they are wrong, if they keep trying the dog gets it

If you see he is getting too excited then you remove him promptly from the situation, that means for him that over excitement means end of game, just like a puppy when he bites your hand and you remove yourself out of the room 

espencer

Liesje

I may try a head halter.  I've never used one before, but there was a dog starting in my class wearing some sort of head halter.  The owner was able to loosen it so when the dog was running the course it looked like a collar with an extra bit hanging off.

 

He has a flat collar, an Easy Walk and a prong, this would be his fourth collar, i imagine that you use each for every different situation, i dont think the collar is communicating what you want him to learn 

Normally I would agree and if I had my way I would use only one training collar (the prong), but different sports/classes have different requirements and neither the prong nor the Easy Walk are allowed where we train.  All three training collars serve the same function (helping to train attention and loose leash walking), it's just a matter of which is allowed and safe in certain environments.  I have seen dogs run and play just fine in properly fitted Easy Walks (heck, I've seen dogs better fitted in easy walks than a lot of flat collars!), but the trainer was pretty quick about making two people take them off. 

Liesje

Pit_Pointer_Aussie

The collar thing is hard, because, as you said, he has desesatized himself to it from being tied out in his former life.

Can he wear his easy walk in agility class? I used a sensation harness (same thing, but no martingale), until Luna was able to control herself enough to transition to a collar.

 

Unfortunately not.  My friend came to my class last week and the trainer had her take hers off.  Then on Monday another dog in Coke's class had one and she asked for it to come off.  She says it inhibits their forward motion.  My guess is that b/c we are in beginners and the dogs are still on lead she doesn't want them inadvertently corrected while learning the obstacles. 

I may try a head halter.  I've never used one before, but there was a dog starting in my class wearing some sort of head halter.  The owner was able to loosen it so when the dog was running the course it looked like a collar with an extra bit hanging off. 

I hate that for so many dog's, training is such a Catch 22.  They need to be exposed to these things in order to learn how to behave and become desensitized, but at the same time you don't want to bring them into an environment where you don't have complete control.  With Coke I've learned that there really is no progression for distraction.  He is either in a place he is familiar with or he's not.  He's either really good, or super distracted.  I wish there was some medium that we could work in...

If I read this correctly, this would be an agility class........I, personally would cancel this class and seriiously work on obedience and recall, and really work on that until it's tight..a good recall is worth a whole lot more than being able to run through a tunnel..........

Maybe it's time to start looking at ways you can reduce all the stress these (endless) activities and analysis place upon your dogs?

snownose

If I read this correctly, this would be an agility class........I, personally would cancel this class and seriiously work on obedience and recall, and really work on that until it's tight..a good recall is worth a whole lot more than being to run through a tunnel..........

Yes, it's an agility class, but most agility at this level is flatwork anyway - recalling the dog back, training the dog to focus on you and be attentive to your body language, etc.  I'd say on Monday night we were actually on an obstacle maybe 2 minutes total and the other 58 minutes was working on ignoring other dogs and keeping focus (when you are waiting your turn you don't just stand there, you work on little focus exercises whereas with Kenya when she waits her turn we work on higher level commands and military pivots for hind end awareness rather than just standing there).  It's valuable for any dog, regardless of what obstacles are used or how far the dog plans to go.  We have no intention of ever competing in agility with Coke. His hips have not been x-rayed so he is jumping very low and using contact obstacles that are lower with much wider angles.

Some agility classes/clubs require a certain level obedience and start off lead immediately but this one does not.  A lot of the dogs in the class have the same challenges as Coke.  If this were a higher level club there's no way I'd take him to class but they encourage signing up if for nothing more than practicing basic skills around new distractions.

rare_bear

Maybe it's time to start looking at ways you can reduce all the stress these (endless) activities and analysis place upon your dogs?

?  Coke hasn't been in a training class since Dec and the one he took then is the only one he's ever done.  He did not show any signs of stress or calming signals when taking class before.  I doubt 60 minutes of class once a week every 6 months is stressful.

"Coke is not a sport dog at all, he's happier lounging on the couch or just playing fetch so he requires very little mental stimulation."

Boredom?