Catch me if you can

relax, they'll figure it out. And why stop the mounting? it's a normal part of dog play/interactions.

We stop the mounting because Molly really doesn`t like it when Bella does this at all. Bella is a tough little girl. If she was a human living in a city I know she would be a gang member. Molly would be at a beauty parlor. One day Molly was laying on the floor and Bella walked past her and stepped on some of Mollys long hair on her tail (not her tail just some hair). Molly cried out and jumped up. Molly has been spoiled and babied for the last two years so I`m afraid if we let the chase game to to far Molly will get hurt some how. As I said Bella has never growled at Molly but Molly has growled at Bella but that was only when she was on DH lap or laying close to me so I feel she thinks we are her protector so she can bark and growl at Bella and there is nothing Bella can to her as we are right there. She would never bark or growl at Bella if they were one on one and both on the floor. Other then that they get along fine so far.

So I`m at a loss on how to go about this. I want them to play but I don`t want anyone to get hurt in the process.

mollymoo

We stop the mounting because Molly really doesn`t like it when Bella does this at all.

mollymoo

Molly has growled at Bella but that was only when she was on DH lap or laying close to me so I feel she thinks we are her protector so she can bark and growl at Bella and there is nothing Bella can to her as we are right there.

I agree with mudpuppy (will this never end???) LOL Let them be. Let them work out the game and the mounting.

If I were you, I would step in where the guarding behavior is concerned. I don't allow my dogs to guard me from one another. I say who gets close to me, Not them. IMO, you should let them work out their relationship with each other and you should not let Molly prevent Bella from approaching you.

They're both so darned cute!  

It is one of those hot topics, heh, but I would stop the mounting. Mounting is normal, and still rude. I'd want Bella to know I didn't think it is appropriate behavior. Dogs that mount (non-sexually) tend to be pushy, slightly obnoxious dogs, and when they push the wrong dog the potential for a fight is high.

What I would most likely do is respond slowly, giving Molly time to say "no," but I would step in if Bella continued mounting. Bella sounds like a lovable handful! These kind of dogs can be great, but IMO when pushy dogs aren't given clear boundaries (from other dogs and/or humans) they can be pains to live with, and unpleasant for other dogs to socialize with.  

The only time I correct mounting behavior is when the other dog is too submissive to correct it themselves or they will overreact and attempt to take out the mounter completely. It's a habit best and most easily broken by dogs themselves.

I would let them work it out themselves as well. Most of the time they are good at letting each other know what is okay and what isn't. The only thing I wouldn't allow is the guarding. Resourse gaurding is not acceptable in my house. Cheza and I have been butting heads on this one lately.

As far as mouting, neither of my dogs do it, but we do see it at the dog park. If Salem is being mounted I let the dogs be because I know Salem will tell the dog that its not okay and fix the situation. Cheza is very submissive in the dog park and will not stand up for herself so I generally stop the behaviour when she is belly up and the other dog isn't taking the hint.

So I`m at a loss on how to go about this. I want them to play but I don`t want anyone to get hurt in the process.

well of course but in my experience people who "meddle" in their dogs relationships tend to create more conflict than they solve. When two dogs meet, they "test" each other to determine how each reacts to this or that and to find out what each feels is important, and what comfort zones and triggers each dog has. Once they've done this, the unpleasant bullying/behaviors usually just go away. Your intereference is only prolonging the process. People "protecting" one dog from another are often inadvertently the cause of a serious dog fight down the line.

Watch for signs of tempers flaring, or one dog being seriously scared, and gently re-direct them in such situations, but otherwise let em be.

I wanted to expand a little ...

I absolutely agree that Molly shouldn't be coddled or over protected. That is important.

But I have seen serious dog fights occur because of the "let them work it out" philosophy.

The tricky thing is walking the fine line between over-intervention and doing nothing at all.

I prefer to let dogs work things out as much as possible, but there are certain behaviors I don't accept. Mounting, excessive resource guarding, not listening to fear cues, etc. I wouldn't allow Molly to guard the people, and I wouldn't allow Bella to overwhelm Molly *if she isn't taking cues from Molly.* That's a big if.

We always talk about protecting older dogs from new puppies, but a new adult dog should be thrown in the mix and the dogs left to figure it all out with no help? Like I said, I've seen problems from under involvement. I've also seen problems from over involvement.

There's a middle road.  

Dog_ma

But I have seen serious dog fights occur because of the "let them work it out" philosophy.

I am a former Akita person I know the above quite well. In fact I suggested situations where I would NOT allow dog to correct or continue mounting. That's about as middle road as it gets...allowing it, and resultant corrections, unless it is best to not allow it.

I did not see anything in the OP's post to indicate a life threatening or majorly bloody situation..maybe I missed something tho. I will re read.

Gina, I apologize if my post came across as snippy or pushy.   I was just trying to explain my reasoning.

As far as mounting goes, I think there is plenty of room for different ways to handle it. The reason I discourage mounting is not for one being mounted, but because I've seen mounting the wrong dog turn into a fight. I discourage it, but I don't freak out about and I agree on giving the dogs a minute or so to deal with it if neither is being out of line.  

Thanks for all the info.

Molly loves to play with socks. I fold them together and she shakes them to death to separate them. Bella I see also likes to play with socks. So for the last two days the girls have been playing together with socks. They even play tug of war together with the socks.

I stay out of the chase game even if Molly runs to me I stay out of it. Now I`m trying to teach DH to do the same.

I let Molly deal with the mounting unless Bella doesn`t take the hint from Molly. Molly has been good dealing with it herself I would say 95% of the time.

Now the resource guarding. I did a search on the forum and came up with a lot of things to do when the dog guards toys, food, etc. but not people. So I guess I need help from you guys again on what to do to stop Molly from doing this. This morning she snapped, and growled at Bella when she was on my lap and Bella came to close to us. Now yesterday Bella was on DH lap and Molly jumped up on his lap too and everything was ok. But if Molly is on DH lap and Bella jumps up we have a problem.

So what should I do to stop Molly guarding us.

mollymoo

So what should I do to stop Molly guarding us.

mollymoo

This morning she snapped, and growled at Bella when she was on my lap and Bella came to close to us

The idea I would be trying to get to Molly is that if you growl and protect me, there are negative consequences.

Also (and more importantly) is Molly on NILIF? I think I would put her on STRICT NILIF. That means even pets from you must be earned. Sitting on your lap must be earned. Getting on the couch must be earned.

Cheza tries to guard. She doesn't growl, but she lifts her lips and shows her teeth. If she is on my lap and she does this at Salem she is told no and put on the floor. I generally also give Salem a quick pat on the head as well, because he is a soft dog and even correcting Cheza can stress him. If she has a bone and tried to guard the privilage is lost and the bone will be taken away. She caught on pretty quick that when she guards something that she wants she will just lose it all together. She is not doing it so much anymore.

I also have Cheza on a nilf program.

FourIsCompany

mollymoo

This morning she snapped, and growled at Bella when she was on my lap and Bella came to close to us

What do you do when she does this?

All the wrong things. I had Bella leave not Molly.

FourIsCompany

Also (and more importantly) is Molly on NILIF?

No but we are going to start now.

Thank you so much for the info.

Hard to believe at first when we got Bella I felt so sorry for Molly because Bella can be so overbearing to get attention from Dh and I and Molly and that scared Molly to death. Now I feel sorry for Bella with Mollys barking, growling and now snapping at her.

Thanks again