Resource guarding (only with bones)

Cita

He's a very possession-conscious dog - he won't even chew on or take something from my hand most of the time, I have to put it on the floor for him. (He'll take kibbles and similar food, but no chance with bones or toys.)

BF and I have done everything we could not to reinforce this, but...

We also can't feed him by hand easily because he tends to tweak his arthritic neck while reaching for the food, and that just scares him and confirms his belief that we're out to get him. Sigh. 

It sounds to me like you know what needs to be done. It also sounds like you have been reinforcing his possessiveness becasue your tip-toe-ing around when he eats his bones. The miunute he growled at you you stepped back an waited, you gave him instant power and proof that his bones are something to be coveted. Does he work for his bones?

For example I dont just make my dogs sit for there bones. When I open the treat drwer they KNOW they better high tail it to there bed and lay down. Sometimes I walk right in and give it to them, soemtimes I take the bones with me to sit down and set them on the ottoman in plain view until I think they are composed enough. They do not try to get up to get their bones.

Also...do you feed him dinner before you eat? Do you let him beg?

I suggest hand feeding him....why cant he do it without craining his neck?

I know it sounds a bit excessive but dogs take something as small as this and run with it. They need pack structure and even though its confusing to us humasn sometimes it means a lot to them. He's not happy in this situation becasue he feels he has to guard his stuff. Pack canines eat according to rank, the higher up gets the prime grub. He is trying to find his place in the pack by testing to see if you are going to maintian your alpha role. I wouldnt be surprised if he acts up in other situations after this.

Keep us posted

I have to agree -- you've pretty well shown him what he did worked.  So I would not allow bones except in your presence and I'd probably do some training FIRST.  Work for his food, work for everything ...

Even if you have to tie a string to the bone so YOU can take it away when YOU want to -- he wouldn't get one from me without my having some immediate means to remove it FAST if he utters one sound.

 I'd also make sure he was LEASHED when he got it so I could have 1000000% control over the situation. 

He's actually on a super super strong NILIF regimen, with the exception of his toys, which are left out to encourage toy destruction instead of house destruction. Anywhere you *could* implement NILIF we have, both BF and I very consistently, and I think that's a big part of why he's much better behaved than he was 6 months ago. Crate before food, not leaving crate without a release word, no jumping on furniture unless invited (even with guests, and even then rarely invited), sit/stay before coming in the apartment, commands before treats (even with strangers)... he gets free access to toys and water and doesn't have to do a command before things he finds unpleasant (like nail trimming or putting his harness on), but that's it.

We didn't actually back off when he growled, we stood in place until he stopped growling, at which point we moved forward, and if he still wasn't growling, we reached forward with a treat and then walked away. I have enough practice with him that I could have taken the bone if I'd wanted/needed to (I've gotten very good at becoming a human muzzle for him), but I didn't want him to think that if he didn't work hard to protect his treasure then I would come up and take it from him. I wanted him to think that growling at us had absolutely no effect, but not growling and us coming closer meant that we brought him good, happy things, so he should welcome that. I'm not sure if that's what we accomplished or not, but that's what we were trying for.

The thing about taking his bones away if he growls is I don't want to reinforce the idea that there's a reason to growl, you know what I mean? He's a very insecure little dog - I have a sneaking suspicion his former owner tried to teach him to not be "guardy" by continuously taking his things away (instead of taking them away and then rewarding him) because he's always very suspicious of people when he has a treat, as if he's certain you're going to take it from him. He won't eat if people are watching him, and he has to take his prize to some secluded location (behind the sofa, under a table, etc.) before he feels comfortable enough to eat. Kibbles he'll just take a few feet away, but toys or chewies he has to hide. (He will take a biscuit from our building manager, carry it in his mouth to the elevator, up 23 floors, down the hall, into the apartment, and then take it behind the couch before he will start eating it!) He also won't chew on something when it's in my hand, and 99% of the time won't even take a large item (like a bone, chewy, or toy) from my hand - I have to put it on the floor first. He'll take kibbles or crumbs, but that's it.

We're not tip-toeing around, I promise (and this is the first time he's had a bone that he actually ate), but as you said, Aurora - he's not happy because he feels he has to guard his stuff. I truly believe that it wasn't at all that he was trying to usurp rank or anything like that, but more that he was absolutely, positively convinced that if he did not passionately defend himself that BF and I were going to wrest that bone out of his mouth and he would never see another one ever again.

So, how do we stop him from guarding his stuff while at the same time trying to let him know that he's in a safe place and doesn't have to try? Since he only guards this item at all, I'm not sure how well a "trade" protocol might work, but maybe?

I hear what your saying and its not like he's intentionally trying to outsmart or up rank you, its not a preconcieved idea like if a human was trying to step on toes. He's not plotting against you while your away, LOL.

Think of him more like a spoiled child who rules the house because the parents dont want him to cry. I'm reading your post and it REALLY sounds like you know you have to be more strict with him, his food, and treats but you dont want to hurt your babies feelings.

What if a child was visiting and in the commotion he snapped at the child or a elderly family member who dodnt know to stay away? Wouldn't you rather him feel safe and comfertable knowing he is comfertable with people around, its in HIS best interest that you help him with this otherwise he might be the kind of dog who has to be fed his bones away from company and thats not fair to him and easily fixed by you.

I used to secretly take pride in the fact that Rory would only take treats from me, only eat if I was home, walk gently on a leash for only me and listen to primarily only me. That is until I went out of town for four days while my mom watched her. She didnt eat the entire time, almost pulled my mom's shoulder out of her socket on a walk and was pacing and miserable the whole time. She was absolutley beside herself and I was so sad to know I inadvertently made her that way. She was still young and I realized I had to let DH feed and walk her for her own good, she was on the fast track to seperation anxiety and guarding me from other people.

Tough love is hard but better in the long run!

AuroraLove

I'm reading your post and it REALLY sounds like you know you have to be more strict with him, his food, and treats but you dont want to hurt your babies feelings.

But how do I be more strict with him when he already works for every scrap of anything he ever gets? (Again, with the exception of his stuffed toys, because if those are left up he tends to find other less appropriate things to chew on) He has VERY strict household rules, and they are very consistently reinforced.

Food:

I say, "Do you want your dinner?" and he runs to his crate and does a down/stay. I give him a few pieces of kibble in there, and then tell him "okay," and ask for a sit/stay on the floor. When he does, I give him his Busy Buddy cube with the rest of his kibbles in it.

Treats:

If he doesn't do a command, or a series of commands, he doesn't get treats. It could be as simple as doing a nice "sit" instead of whining/begging or a complicated string of something he's been learning. Or, it could be being calm and friendly with a stranger, so the stranger gives him a treat.

I guess I could take his toys away, but that would just result in more chewed up socks/shoes/rugs - we've tried it before.   Still don't know if it would help the guarding, though, since he doesn't guard his toys at all...

My sister has a dog who is possessive of toys. She has a basket on the floor that she puts no more then 3 toys in for him to play with anythime and then she puts the rest away and doles out accordingly. His favored kong is one he gets only when he has done a sit/stay on his bed the whole time her children eat dinner (she did this to keep him from begging and his kong is a reward for staying on his bed). It took a couple tries for him to get the idea but now when she sets her kids food on the table he runs to his bed and dosnt get up, she taught him leave it and practices making him get up and leave his treat. So she isnt taking away from him, he is leaving it on his own and it is still there when he gets back.

Even though he is not possessive of his food the hand feeding exercise will help him with his possesivness because its the practice of your hand to his mouth, He is possessive over his treats because they are just that A TREAT, it is a high prized item. He'll see that nothing happens when you are touching his food, ie it dosnt get taken away from him nor do you eat it so the bones should be the same. Now you think he is working for his bones but he is not anymore because its the same routine, he's not working for it he knows he has to do a trick or something so he expects his treat after such command, he feels the bone is due and owed to him. I bet if you grab his bone he automatically knows your going to ask him to do something.....he is appeasing you only to get his bone. Next time grab the bone and walk in the living room and sit down. I'm sure he will be terribly confused. Make him go sit on his bed and set the bone at your feet, lol.....ooh he might be getting frusterated now and I bet you'll see the wheels turning in his head like "exsuse me lady, this is not normal". Wait until he has calmed, call him to you and make him take it out of your hand just like the food. Make him make the correlation between food and bones....stuff out of mommies hand is ok. Then work up to calling him away from his bone after he gets this down. Switch up the routine as he gets used to one. In the middel of his bone grab the leash and say lets go for a walk.....he'll leave the bone on his own and it will still be there when he gets back!

I used to bribe Rory with a bone after her meal when I had a hard time waening her off of wet food. After awhile she would immedialty sulk infront of her treat drawer after she ate and I found she came to expect it and wouldnt come lay down until I gave her a one. Thats when I started to switch her routine a bit!

Cita

AuroraLove

I'm reading your post and it REALLY sounds like you know you have to be more strict with him, his food, and treats but you dont want to hurt your babies feelings.

 

But how do I be more strict with him when he already works for every scrap of anything he ever gets? (Again, with the exception of his stuffed toys, because if those are left up he tends to find other less appropriate things to chew on) He has VERY strict household rules, and they are very consistently reinforced.

Food:

I say, "Do you want your dinner?" and he runs to his crate and does a down/stay. I give him a few pieces of kibble in there, and then tell him "okay," and ask for a sit/stay on the floor. When he does, I give him his Busy Buddy cube with the rest of his kibbles in it.

Treats:

If he doesn't do a command, or a series of commands, he doesn't get treats. It could be as simple as doing a nice "sit" instead of whining/begging or a complicated string of something he's been learning. Or, it could be being calm and friendly with a stranger, so the stranger gives him a treat.

I guess I could take his toys away, but that would just result in more chewed up socks/shoes/rugs - we've tried it before.   Still don't know if it would help the guarding, though, since he doesn't guard his toys at all...

If he is on that strict of a regimen and has to work for every scrap then perhaps there is just too much expected of him to get a bite.....the kibble in this case is not as highly valued as the bone......and the bone he is willing to fight for....

I don't make my dogs work for food.....meals and treats are guaranteed, instead I use super favorite toys for any kind of training.....I can take toys, treats or even bones out of my dogs' mouth......I believe that is due to one reason only........we play the "Let me see" game....they have been conditioned to show me what they have and then I stick it right back in their mouths....they know I am not taking it away for good.....I wouldn't advise anybody to do that right off the bat, because it's a learned progress.......my dogs know they don't have to fight for anything or protect it......

If Rascal is on a serious, serious NILIF, and he got super guardy of the bone, maybe what he needs is not more conditions. Maybe he needs less.  

I'd personally teach him that bones DO fall from the sky. Bone-a-polooza. I'd ignore him if he growls. I'd pay ZERO attention to him and his precious for a while. Eventually, as he started to relax a little, I'd walk by, still paying no attention to him, and drop chicken or something. Just casually. The goal is first to calm him down, and then to gradually desensitize him to humans being near.

Once he's cool with that, I'd up the ante by sitting near him, NOT LOOKING AT HIS BONE, and throwing or offering the yummy treat. Eventually, you can get to the point where you can touch the bone while giving him chicken.

NILIF isn't really the fix for resource guarding. NILIF is about the dog working to *get*, RG is about protecting what he already has. And the harder it is to get something, the harder it may be to face losing it.

I don't think Cita taught Rascal she was giving in. And frankly, what is the opposite of giving in? Teaching Rascal he is correct and people will charge in and steal your stuff? So next time you should bite?

Anyone can take anything from my dogs. Even crazy ol' Ivan. I very much believe that the best way to prevent and treat RG is to relieve the anxiety that is behind it.  

snownose

my dogs know they don't have to fight for anything or protect it......

Dog_ma

If Rascal is on a serious, serious NILIF, and he got super guardy of the bone, maybe what he needs is not more conditions. Maybe he needs less.  

I'd personally teach him that bones DO fall from the sky. Bone-a-polooza. I'd ignore him if he growls. I'd pay ZERO attention to him and his precious for a while. Eventually, as he started to relax a little, I'd walk by, still paying no attention to him, and drop chicken or something. Just casually. The goal is first to calm him down, and then to gradually desensitize him to humans being near.

Once he's cool with that, I'd up the ante by sitting near him, NOT LOOKING AT HIS BONE, and throwing or offering the yummy treat. Eventually, you can get to the point where you can touch the bone while giving him chicken.

NILIF isn't really the fix for resource guarding. NILIF is about the dog working to *get*, RG is about protecting what he already has. And the harder it is to get something, the harder it may be to face losing it.

I don't think Cita taught Rascal she was giving in. And frankly, what is the opposite of giving in? Teaching Rascal he is correct and people will charge in and steal your stuff? So next time you should bite?

Anyone can take anything from my dogs. Even crazy ol' Ivan. I very much believe that the best way to prevent and treat RG is to relieve the anxiety that is behind it.  

I totally agree with this.  My mom and I have had a number of dogs get over resource guarding by doing this same kind of thing.  By NOT using NILF, but "bone-a-palooza". LOL!

snownose

I don't make my dogs work for food.....meals and treats are guaranteed, instead I use super favorite toys for any kind of training.....I can take toys, treats or even bones out of my dogs' mouth......I believe that is due to one reason only........we play the "Let me see" game....they have been conditioned to show me what they have and then I stick it right back in their mouths....they know I am not taking it away for good.....I wouldn't advise anybody to do that right off the bat, because it's a learned progress.......my dogs know they don't have to fight for anything or protect it......

Agree with this too!   The "Let me see" game is one used often in our house and you can take anything from any of our dogs.

Many dogs are possessive of "high value" stuff.  And, often, people whose dogs are not guardy have all kinds of advice to offer about obedience being the key.  Actually, the idea is to make the dog think that the resources ALL BELONG TO THE HUMAN.  The way you do that is outlined in Jean Donaldson's book "Mine! A Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs" as well as in Brenda Aloff"s booklet "Resource Guarding.  But, if you and your BF plan to marry and have kids, a word to the wise.  You can train a dog not to guard from you, but kids are a different ballgame sometimes... 

Others have given good suggestions, but I just have one quick question:  Is there any reason you can't teach him a trade protocol for his bone...with another bone? 
 

I have to agree with Spiritdogs.

I think some misread my post becasue a lot of the replies suggested the exercises I provided would teach the dog there is a reason to guard the bone when in reality you are only teaching to not bite the hand that feeds. We cant forget that dogs dont think like people. Dogs are pack animals that thrive when they have a solid leader of the pack....have you ever seen a pack of wolves eat? The higher members of the pack growl at the lower members to tell them to back off, that is how they fight for superiority but that dosnt mean I'm insinuating you have to reign over your dog like a crazy person.

I think the whole game of trying to desensitize your dog to you being close to the bone is giving him more reason to guard it. It comes off as sneaky and almost like stalking him and his bone, he may become uneasy at the new intrusion. Dogs like to work for things.

Anyhoo keep us posted on his progress