The clicker training challenge

OK, Winnie and I will get out the clicker.  We've been boarding my "dog-in-law" while my in-laws snowbirded in Florida, so while he was here, focused training was difficult at best.  He goes home tomorrow.  This thread could be enough to keep us on track.  Winnie kinda "gets" the clicker, but she's not all that keen on "offering" behaviors, I've been luring and molding and marking.   Maybe this time around we'll really get it.

I've read Sue Alisby's levels, and agree that is a great reference.  I've also got some of the "Bow Wow" DVDs.  For me, it really helped to see clicking in action, so those of you out there that are having trouble with the concepts, try viewing some video.

OK, we're on board, clicker is CHARGED for Cau and I...... (I have experience with Reg and Bernie with clickers, but would still like to do thid...I feel Rusty, lol)

when's lesson #2????

Lesson #2 

http://www.clickerlessons.com/attention.htm

http://www.clickerlessons.com/targeting.htm

And for those of you who still want to stop your dog from doing something, how about trying something new to stop jumping up... 

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/jumping.htm 

www.clickertrainusa.com (This is for people who want to see clicking in action - view the free videos)

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/jumping.htm

see if this link works better, you somehow got a space on the end of yours

I bought a book "Click & Easy" that is just so user friendly and helpful.

The clicker has brought training to a whole new level for me.

I'm also taking classes to become certified to train dogs part-time at PETCO and they use the "clicker" method as well.

I now also encouraged my neighbors to use this technique. They will be coming over once a week for a "mini session" since they know how badly they all need it!

I want to say thanks to the forum for opening up this whole new world of training for me; it's turn my life around!

 Anyone working on anything new this week?

Just to let you know, I took that challenge a while back.  Within minutes I taught a certain independent hound to "touch" an object with his paw, and to "take" an object with his mouth.   

I didn't use a clicker, since I have had bridge training when I worked with birds.  My timing is pretty good with my voice, so that's what I used.  I think it's a very effective method of training certain behaviors. Other behaviors I have my doubts about...they're small doubts but they are there, nevertheless. 

I've hesitated jumping in, because I've always been ambivalent about clicker training.  I didn't feel one way or another, just had never tried it.  Well, I looked up the links provided, and decided to try it.  I've been struggling with Honor's leash reactiveness for awhile, with little improvement.  (By the way, her leash reactiveness is never mean-aggressive, just "HELLO-NEW-FRIEND-HOW-ARE-YOU-HELLOOOOOOO!!!!";). 

We began the attention exercises, as she needed improvement in that area.  Honor picked up on the clicker's meaning super-quick, and has become quite the champion at looking at me when I say her name.  She's incredibly food motivated, so the fact that the click means food has only increased her fervor.  So I was impressed with how fast her attention improved, and moved on to other exercises.  In the last few days, clicker training has helped Honor to: touch, take, better directed retrieve, learn the name of several stuffies, to "Play Dead", walk nicely, and drop her toy during fetch.

I have to say the last three have driven me to explore clicker training more.  "Play Dead" was the one trick that Honor never got during puppy class, and she learned it in one night.  I've also been struggling to teach her to drop her toy during fetch, as she thinks that there should be a tug-fest every time she brings the toy back.  I'm in the middle of teaching her "Tug" since she loves to do it, but she's discovered that "Drop" gets the toy flying out so much faster!  And the best part is how the clicker has helped us to walk nicely.  Honor is a true Alaskan Husky at heart, and I'm sure that she believes that there is a sled being pulled behind her at all times!  Everywhere she goes is at full-throttle, and it's been incredibly difficult to get her to walk nicely for more than 10 feet.  Lo and behold, we started working on utilizing the clicker on walking nicely, and it's come to a lovely point tonight: while walking to the laundry center in my apartment, I brought Honor along on a normal leash and collar (no easy-walk!), and she walked peacefully at my side the whole way.  I'm SO proud of my pup!  On top of it all, the attention work has enabled her to respond to me in the presence of another dog, which helps to calm her down instead of inciting a very enthusiastic (and pulling!) "woowoowoowoowoowoo!!!".

I know that there's a lot of training methods out there, but I figure that you should use whichever works AND makes your dog happy.  I can honestly say that Honor looks incredibly happy when the clicker's out.  She's a smart girl, and loves to think, so the clicker seems to rock her world.  I'm glad we tried it, and I'm looking forward to learning new ways to incorporate the clicker into our training.

PS. I checked the book "Click To Calm" out of the library.  VERY interesting, and it helps me see the wider scope of clicker use.  It's been a good read in terms of figuring out my leash-exuberant pup. 

I was just a little confused. You referred to Honor as Alaskan Husky but the sig says Klee Kai. Anyway, I know what you mean about the drive of a sled dog. It seems a special challenge to get a sled dog to walk nicely, considering that what they were bred for is the opposite of that. Which is not to say that breed trait means everything.

You have nice work, though. I know I was not able to train retrieve until I had started using the clicker. What you described is the Husky version of fetch and retrieve. With Shadow, I would throw the ball or object and he would go get it and take off around the yard at nearly top speed and eventually come near me, when the game would morph into tug. I taught heel with a clicker. I have used corrections before (not with heel) and with Shadow being a rugged dog and used to wrestling play with his previous owner, he thought most corrections I could use, including the scruff and pin were play. The clicker helped me realize that he was not that hard a dog to train, like I had previously thought. All along, he could have done what I wanted if he had simply known this or that was it. Being able to mark with a steady sound and provide the reward made all the difference in the world, to him.

Xerxes

Just to let you know, I took that challenge a while back.  Within minutes I taught a certain independent hound to "touch" an object with his paw, and to "take" an object with his mouth.   

I didn't use a clicker, since I have had bridge training when I worked with birds.  My timing is pretty good with my voice, so that's what I used.  I think it's a very effective method of training certain behaviors. Other behaviors I have my doubts about...they're small doubts but they are there, nevertheless. 

Don't worry, Ed.  Even I don't teach every behavior with a clicker.   

Infiniti

I've hesitated jumping in, because I've always been ambivalent about clicker training.  I didn't feel one way or another, just had never tried it.  Well, I looked up the links provided, and decided to try it.  I've been struggling with Honor's leash reactiveness for awhile, with little improvement.  (By the way, her leash reactiveness is never mean-aggressive, just "HELLO-NEW-FRIEND-HOW-ARE-YOU-HELLOOOOOOO!!!!";). 

We began the attention exercises, as she needed improvement in that area.  Honor picked up on the clicker's meaning super-quick, and has become quite the champion at looking at me when I say her name.  She's incredibly food motivated, so the fact that the click means food has only increased her fervor.  So I was impressed with how fast her attention improved, and moved on to other exercises.  In the last few days, clicker training has helped Honor to: touch, take, better directed retrieve, learn the name of several stuffies, to "Play Dead", walk nicely, and drop her toy during fetch.

I have to say the last three have driven me to explore clicker training more.  "Play Dead" was the one trick that Honor never got during puppy class, and she learned it in one night.  I've also been struggling to teach her to drop her toy during fetch, as she thinks that there should be a tug-fest every time she brings the toy back.  I'm in the middle of teaching her "Tug" since she loves to do it, but she's discovered that "Drop" gets the toy flying out so much faster!  And the best part is how the clicker has helped us to walk nicely.  Honor is a true Alaskan Husky at heart, and I'm sure that she believes that there is a sled being pulled behind her at all times!  Everywhere she goes is at full-throttle, and it's been incredibly difficult to get her to walk nicely for more than 10 feet.  Lo and behold, we started working on utilizing the clicker on walking nicely, and it's come to a lovely point tonight: while walking to the laundry center in my apartment, I brought Honor along on a normal leash and collar (no easy-walk!), and she walked peacefully at my side the whole way.  I'm SO proud of my pup!  On top of it all, the attention work has enabled her to respond to me in the presence of another dog, which helps to calm her down instead of inciting a very enthusiastic (and pulling!) "woowoowoowoowoowoo!!!".

I know that there's a lot of training methods out there, but I figure that you should use whichever works AND makes your dog happy.  I can honestly say that Honor looks incredibly happy when the clicker's out.  She's a smart girl, and loves to think, so the clicker seems to rock her world.  I'm glad we tried it, and I'm looking forward to learning new ways to incorporate the clicker into our training.

PS. I checked the book "Click To Calm" out of the library.  VERY interesting, and it helps me see the wider scope of clicker use.  It's been a good read in terms of figuring out my leash-exuberant pup. 

I'm really happy that you took the challenge despite your initial skepticism.  I'm always gratified when anyone has a training breakthrough with their dog using a method that causes the dog no discomfort.  Many people think that certain breeds are difficult to train, but at least with the sled dog crowd, I have found that the pulling on leash becomes self reinforcing because that is what the dog is pre-programmed to do, and because the human response to pulling is usually to pull back (which, to them, just means the sled got heavier LOL).  Working against oppositional reflex is harder than simply training an alternative without force that pays off equally as well as, or better than, pulling.  Funny how you picked up right away on your dog's interest in learning.  It does give some dogs quite a rush, especially the independent thinkers and the problem solvers.  I'm glad you are having success.  Keep us posted!

spiritdogs

but at least with the sled dog crowd, I have found that the pulling on leash becomes self reinforcing because that is what the dog is pre-programmed to do, and because the human response to pulling is usually to pull back (which, to them, just means the sled got heavier LOL).

That's it exactly. The proper response for a sled dog to tension on the leash or harness is to pull harder to get the sled over the obstacle or whatever. So, in some cases, increasing pressure or popping the leash will have the exact opposite effect that most people will want. Which is, when a person leash pops to have a dog quit pulling, that might work on some dogs but a sled dog will think to pull harder. It is what they were bred to do and they find their "work" enjoyable. To have them not do that, one has to use a reward that is on par or exceeds that reward. Fortunately, for my dog, that reward is treats. Anything from store bought stuff which is great to him to drippy meat which is, of course, the mother lode.

ron2

ortunately, for my dog, that reward is treats. Anything from store bought stuff which is great to him to drippy meat which is, of course, the mother lode.

And sorry about the confusion with her breed earlier.  It was late when I posted, and I meant that she's an Alaskan Husky at heart, as in she doesn't realize that she's an AKK who is unfortunately too little to pull a sled.  But I really think she's convinced that one is harnessed to her at all times!

Thanks for the support you guys.  It's pretty awesome to see how enthused she is about the clicker.  When I pulled it out to leave the apartment today, she instantly popped into a sit, staring up at me like "What are we gonna do now, huh? huh?".  She sounds a lot like your dog, Ron.  I think the clicker's combination of thinking and food is irresistible to her. 

We had another breakthrough this morning.  Whenever we used to encounter someone in the hallway of the apartment complex, Honor thought it was cause for a bolt to the end of the lead to greet the person with a "How are youuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!".  While I know that she means no harm, it can be a little nervy for people who don't know her.  So we've been working on redirecting her attention to me when meeting people.  When we passed an old man in the hallway, I called her name for attention and asked for a sit.  She complied, but you could see her working up her vocal chords for a good welcoming bark-fest, so I asked her to "Quiet".  The quiet command is apparently way more thrilling when there is a clicker involved, so she waited in a beautiful and quiet sit until the man reached us.  At that point, he wanted to pet her, and she was so good!  No jumping!  It was wonderful to see someone approach her without worrying that her barking and pulling were warning signs.

Infiniti

She sounds a lot like your dog, Ron.  I think the clicker's combination of thinking and food is irresistible to her. 

No doubt, regardless of size.  Here's my view. Any dog, like any animal, is working toward something. That something, for lack of a better word, is a reward. We do what feels good and avoid what doesn't feel good. This may be a survival mechanism in anything more sentient than a rock. A dog works for resources. Even in the case of breeding for specific abilities. That dogs that did those abilities got to breed and eat, etc. Some dogs find the work a reward. That's fine, too. They are still working toward that reward. Always and forever. I know that sounds like a generalization. So, I'm a bad boy. The advantage of using a marker such as a clicker or whatever suits you is that it correctly and succinctly identifies the wanted behavior and predicts that the reward they are always seeking is imminent. If anything, I would say reward training is about as natural as you can get. No animal is born as a killer or to fight. They are born to seek reward that results in survival. Anyway, the northern breeds such as sled dog breeds, and the Kee Klai is a derivative of sled dogs (some have called it the mini Husky), is independent, strong, and smart. They always have a reason for doing what they are doing, being independent. So, you have to be the source of that reason. And that is most easily accomplished, imo, with marker and reward training.

The added advantage of a clicker is that it is a monotone (though you can electronics ones and choose tones and timbres that your dog might respond better to) that never changes. This is important, especially in some independent breeds. To them, each different sound means a different thing. It reminds me of mandarin chinese. A word can have 3 or 4 meaning depending on different inflections and context. So, for that dog to understand that cue for that behavior, it must be present the same way every time. And the best way to bridge that is with a sound that never changes, such as the clicker. Later, after several different circumstances, the dog may come to understand that the word sound, not the inflection, means the behavoir. And this is accomplished by clicking and rewarding, no matter how you say the word. By doing that, the dog learns to ignore the inflective variations of your voice. Experience to him has shown that the word might have different inflection here and there but proper response was followed by a click and a treat. It was the word that was important and not whether your voice was rough from a cold or thick from drinking cold medicine.

The advantage to what you have been doing, which has been specific obedience in some differing scenarios will eventually lead to a generalized behavior of listening to you regardless of the situation because, as time goes by, it will be proven to him that listening to you is always rewarding, regardless of circumstance. Generally, being calm will be a way of life that is rewarding, as well as increasing the tendency to listen to you.

Bonus!

spiritdogs

BTW, this is NOT a thread to dis clicker training, not a thread to tell us why it didn't work for you, not a thread to even mention CM or any other non-clicker trainer.  This is a thread for people who might want to try the method, get some support, and chat about your results.

Ron2, aren't you why why off topic and in advocacy mode.  Even the OP could not resist dissing other tried and true traiing methods even though the Original Posting said not to.   If the OP's intent is from members to try this tool and then receive support and directions on the technique, I don't think telling them what other believe as untruths or your beliefs is support at all.  Besides, some of what you stated can be applied to all training methods and not solely attributed to clicker.  And for your information, some dogs know there is a reward coming way before the sound of the clicker.  The body language of the human is the marker and not the clicker sound.  I trained a deaf dog and in doing so I became aware of my own body language as the first communciation link to any dog. 

My advise is one should not lose focus and what is being trained.  For example, for a dog that pulls, you should not train the dog not to pull but focus should be strengthening basic obedience commands.  This is often referred to as teaching alternative behavior but it always seems to be discounted when in fact the alternative behavior is what should be focused on in the first place or if it was part of training, it failed or needs to be strengthened.  Training 101 in my opinion.  I don't understand why the command 'HEEL" is not the focus of training.   For those dogs that supposedly have been bred to pull, I think suppressing that breed instinct will cause problems and be exhibited by other behavior issues.  That pull need has to be fulfilled as should all the other basic needs in order for the dog to learn.  A dog has keen awareness of the environment it is in and also should know the difference between taking a walk and being one end of a tractor pull.

Today, I went on a home visit to a family that is interested in adopting Molson.  As part of the adoption process, we do a walk about in the neighborhood.  Today I brought one of Great Danes named Drizzle for the walk about.  Drizzle was trained in basic obedience a little more than 8 years ago and then after that we did agility for the next few years.   I really don't take Drizzle out in public with me because she is a very hyper active dog but she is also very obedient   Anyway, while me walking Drizzle, another walking Molson, and the family walking their residence dog (who is pulling like members claim sibes do)  we come across a family taking their infant, their dog, and a stroller for a walk.  All the ingredients for at least one to cause a pull reaction in the dogs.  Drizzle was walking loose on a 15 foot lead and she was alerted to family and started to go forward.  I gave the HEEL command, a command that I believe I have not used for 8 years.  She immediately came to my side and walked nicely along side of me for the rest of the walk.  Drizzle was taught HEEL to be aware of my feet which kept her in the right place. at the right walk speed, and knowing when to turn and not to turn.  When she complied with the command, I did not reward her but I am sure my pride in her came out in my body language.  You can never hide or withhold affection toward the dog you love.