my girls just had a fight!!! HELP!

    • Gold Top Dog

    my girls just had a fight!!! HELP!

    Hello everyone,
    I have a 4 year old lab x pitbull and a 2 year old St. Bernard.  I was cleaning out the closet that their food is kept in and their dog food was sittin by the wall.  Then all of a sudden they just started fighting.  My fiance had to grab both of them and pry them apart.  It was a pretty emotional thing for both of us.  We separated the dogs for like 20 mins and then reintroduced them.  They are acting kinda strange with each other now.  The st. bernard is really timid.  They went out side together and we heard a bark... and the pitbull x came in and her hackles were up.  We are really worried.  Are they just mad at each other???  Thanks
    • Gold Top Dog
    How long have they been living together with no incident?
     
    Dogs do fight. Most of the time it's all posturing and scary sounds and flailing paws and teeth but little or no injury. Was either dog injured in this fight? If dogs want to really hurt each other, they can and will. If neither hurt the other, chances are they didn't really want to, it was just a display. When my dogs fight (it probably happens about once every other month), they are always a little weird with each other for a little while afterwards. It was a stressful situation, and they know that I'm also feeling emotional about it, and it effects their behavior. Usually after a few hours or the next day everything is back to normal.
     
    That being said, sometimes two female dogs (they aren't called bitches for no reason) can develop an issue with one another and never be okay with each other again. Keep your antennae way up and don't leave them unsupervised without seperating them for a while to make sure this isn't a bitch issue but just a random tiff that didn't really mean anything. I'd also make sure there are no "bones of contention" laying around to spark another issue. Pick up any toys or treats that may be laying around. It sounds like this fight may have been sparked because of some resource gaurding behavior from one of them (you were messing with their food bag). Also, try not to act all weird or pick sides based on who you feel the "victim" was. That doesn't really help the situation.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was cleaning out the closet that their food is kept in and their dog food was sittin by the wall.

     
    Resource guarding.
    • Gold Top Dog
    We got chelsea (the st. bernard) when she was a puppy... so they have been living together for a year and 8 months??  or so.. can't remember how old Chelsea was when we got her.  There has been an incident before where i brought home their dog food and put the bad infront of the washer and dryer and got the rest of the groceries.  I was putting away the groceries and then the pitbull x started growling and barking (not a nice growl or bark) and i just started yelling at them and they stopped and i separated them again and everything was fine.  I belive it got physical this time because usually the st. bernard will just back down because our pitbull x is the dominant one.  But today the st. bernard faught back and thats why it got so bad. (i'm guessing)  But if I was home alone and this happened i am afraid of what would have happened!!!  Would I know right away if they were never going to get along with each other again?  I am sooo worried we'll have to get rid of one of them and they are like my daughters!!!  thanks for all the help!!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    OH and we have no idea if they intended to hurt each other.  One of them did let out a cry.  But it all happened so fast!  Is there anything else that would tell us if they did mean to hurt each other?  Like do you usually have to separate your dogs physiclaly like my boyfriend had to get in there and pry them apart.???
    • Gold Top Dog
    Michelle, my two dogs, who adore each other, can get into vicious altercations over food or long lasting chew treats.  My female inhales food while the male is more deliberate and she would, if she could, take it from him and he knows it.  My male is a much more powerful chewer, so a chew treat will be gone in a flash for him and she will still be working on hers - again - the potential and fear he would take it from her.
     
    I think you can tell just by the sounds when it is different from play and even posturing.  We usually manage all food and treat situations carefully, but once, after days of nonstop rain where they did not get much exercise (even they didn't want to be out) there was a huge and intense fight over a chew - I was in the room alone with them.  Mia had the chew and Pofi just whined at her - I actually thought he wanted her to play with him.  She launched and it was on and it was serious. Trying to separate them myself, I got bit. Not sure which one did bite me and I know neither of them even knew they did bite me - it was just mayhem and I got in the way.  (I had to go to the ER for treatment). 
     
    It left me shaking and not because of the puncture wounds. It was harrowing.  And the few times since then there was any escalation it left both me and DH shaking.  But the fact is, it was pretty much over in moments -they did not change in their relationship.  And we've not had any instances in 6 months or so. 
     
    BUT - I am very regimented about food.  I do not give them the opportunity to think the food is being monopolized by one - even bringing it into the house is done with care and forethought.  Very careful with treats etc.  And they get lots of exercise always. 
     
    Agreed with what Houndlove says about keeping your antennae up - watch for any triggers - eliminate or manage them. Keep them exercised - physically and mentally.  NILIF - nothing in life is free. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have been able to stop fights just by yelling at them, but a few times I've had to physically seperate them and once it was really difficult and took some serious doing.  And it is always as the result of some kind of resource gaurding issue.
     
    Conrad, before he had a little brother, got into a fight with a neighbor dog who he'd always hung out with a lot, and I had to physical seperate that one and got injured in the process. Interestingly, neither dog had a scratch on him, but I had puncture wounds on my chest and hand. I really do not recommend getting into the middle of a dog fight. More often than not, they don't mean to hurt eachother for real, but you getting in the way throws things off and you can get very seriously injured. If you must seperate them, do it from behind (don't think you can stick yourself in the middle of them) and be very very careful. Hoses and dousing with water can work to seperate two dogs who are really going at it.
     
    My boys love each other and get along famously, but I do have to keep a look out if they are having some kind of high-value treat in close proximity to one another. Most of the time, there's no problem. But I know from past experience, that every like 1 out of a 100 times there's an issue and that's really never fun to deal with. So I manage the situation and try to not put either of them in a spot where they'd feel the need to fight. It's totally second nature now to make sure that really awesome treats are dispensed in such a way that the dogs are supervised carefully or seperated if there can't be close supervision.
     
    If they didn't hurt each other, chances are that was not the point of the fight. As I say, large dogs who really are intent on injuring or killing another dog can and will do it, and do it pretty fast. If neither dog has any injuries at all, and you were able to break it up fairly quickly, that's a good indicaction that what you've got here is a fairly standard resource-gaurder (your pit x) who is trying to prove a point to her sister. That doesn't mean it can't happen again (and frankly if you have more than one dog and have never had a fight, my hats off to you but I think that's very rare), so you need to work on managing the situation and keeping a closer eye on their behavior and body language. It may have seemed like "out of nowhere" to you but had you really been looking, I'm sure you would have seen the signs. When I see the signs of trouble a-brewin', I redirect the dogs to another activity. If Conrad has a goodie and Marlowe's eyeing it up and Conrad is noticing, I just call Marlowe over and play with him a little or give him something else to do. If he doesn't bother Conrad, Conrad won't bother him. Conrad is the top dog and he's not about to let Marlowe forget that, and I support Conrad's position. Trying to make them share is a totally human idea and does not compute in the dog world.
     
    I definately think that if you've got more than one dog, confinement seperately is always the way to go, whether there's a current issue or not. It is just safer. I have heard more than one horror story of someone who comes home to find that there's been a massacre.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks for all these replies.  It has been hours and they still haven't really interacted with each other normally.  They are very distant with each other.  I am going to be really careful from now on with their dog food bag. (and any other treats for that matter)  Thanks again!!!!   if anyone else has input i'd like to read what you have to say.  Hopefully everything will be alright in the morning.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hmmmm.... ok update.  I let them outside in the back yard so they could go pee before bed.  They went out fine and then came inside and the St. Bernard was sniffing the lab's butt... and then the lab's "hackles" (hair on back) went up and she then smelled the st. bernards butt.  The lab x is being so timid around the St. Bernanrd.   is this normal after a fight????  Thanks again!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    The lab x is being so timid around the St. Bernanrd. is this normal after a fight???? Thanks again!!!


    Hi Michelle,
    Sorry to hear what you're going thru, and unfortunately, I have some experience in this area too.  I have 2 females and the fighting between them is what brought me to this forum a few years back.  For us, things had been much better for the last year or so, but they had another fight several weeks ago.   It's late, so I'll be brief, but I'll tell you this:  the fights can be serious and yes, it may be that you couldn't separate them.  I know I can't with our 2, so they're never allowed to be together unless my DH is home.  When they've had a fight, their behavior around each other is quite strained, so we keep them completely separated for some time, maybe a few days even.  We feed them in separate locations, where they can't even see each other.  Nothing that can be construed as valuable (toys, treats, etc.) is left out for them to fight over.  Having said all that, there have been fights that there was no obvious trigger (resource), and that is why I never allow our girls to be together when I'm alone.  When they've gotten into a fight, there's no way I could stop it with a shout or anything of that nature.  Seriously, only pulling them off each other will end it and then you need to be able to get one of them to retreat.  My older lab is best at that, so she's the one we can release first.  Left to their own devices, they'd head right back to each other to finish things off.  I don't understand all the psychological parts of this situation, and I got exhausted laying awake trying to figure it out, so we just micro-manage both dogs and do the very best we can.  I wouldn't wish this on anyone, so I'm sorry you've experienced it.  I hope that this is some some fluke for you and things settle down, but based on what you're describing, I'd suggest you be hyper-alert and if in doubt, keep them separated.  It stinks, but it can be done. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Are both of your dogs spayed? Fluctuating hormones can affect behavior, so if not, now is definately the time.
     
    Both of your dogs are of breeds that can have difficulty living with others. St. Bernards have this tendency with members of their own sex. I know, we had two males when I was growing up and they had some horrific fights, before being permanently seperated. I also still have a scar from getting in the middle.
     
    This doesn't sound horrific. I'd definately put both girls on a NILF program (you can google it for more information), take away all resources when they are together, buy a can of Direct Stop and keep it clipped to my belt. The Direct Stop won't hurt them but is unpleasant. Also, don't leave them alone together until you have more information.
     
    Yes, it is normal that one dog will be submissive after a fight. Your St. Bernard is just reaching maturity and there may be a change of the pecking order here. That sounds like what it is, and these things resove pretty much on their own, but because of their size, and ability to inflict harm before you can physically seperate them, I'd take lot of precautions.
    • Gold Top Dog
    We have a thread going with this particular issue, why 2 bitches fighting is worse than 2 males.
    In my experience 2 bitches is worse than 2 males.
     
    I would not leave them alone unless someone is home, and can watch them at all times.
    In my experience once there have been fights they only escalate each time, and that could lead to serious injuries.
     
    If you must leave them alone either crate them or find a way to keep them separated at all times.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Welcome to the wonderful world of multiple bitches.  Be extremely cautious with that food bag, be sure both are spayed, and take the wonderful advice that you've been given.  But, don't let your guard down .
     
    Leave it is a command that works with my crew when they start fussing at one another...but most of mine are males and their fights are not as intense as the females....
    • Gold Top Dog
    There has been great advice posted here already! One thing to keep in mind hat is very simple yet overlooked is they need bonding, quality time together. Do you walk them together or just ever take them to a feild and let them play? Sometimes in the winter we tend to give them less outing due to the weather and they are just like two kids who have been couped up in the house too long, ya know? The kids who play together stay together
    As mentioned before, obediance is a big factor as well and exercise too. Do eitehr typically show food aggression? I would also move their food bowls farther from eachother, prefferably two different rooms. Do they have their own beds, toys, and food dishes?
    • Gold Top Dog
    There are a couple of things IMO, that could be going on here: resource guarding, and quite possibly St. Bernard coming into Social maturity. If it's the St. coming into maturity, it could be social climbing.

    My first guess, though, is resource guarding -- sounds like the food bag is a definite trigger. It is for two of my dogs - they are not allowed to be near the food when we bring it home, and the bags (before they go in the airtight bins) are kept totally out of sight. The bag is thrown away in the outside trash-can, where the dogs have no access to it. Sounds like you may want to take steps to take away any resource guarding triggers - but be aware that they may also fight over you, and your space.

    One thing I think would be helful is for you to start NILIF - and if you do it already, crank it up tight. Another thing is to put away any resources (ie toys, food, etc.), and dole them out as you see fit. Feed them seperately - either in crates, or other rooms. If you're not keeping them seperated while you are away, you may want to start - either by way of crate, or shut in seperate rooms.

    If it continues or escalates, you may want to consider a consult with a behaviorist. I know how upsetting and harrowing bitch fights can be, and some females hold serious grudges.