Boarding the dog-aggressive/fear-aggressive dog

    • Gold Top Dog

    Boarding the dog-aggressive/fear-aggressive dog

    I have the opportunity to do a very impressive, NIH funded summer research project at my school this summer. However, at the end, there is a paid (i.e. required for the program) trip to Michigan for a few days to attend a large research symposium to present your work. However, I am wondering what I would do with Ginny. I have given up many travel opportunities over the years because of her (and I don’t feel resentful, I make do and I understand she was not ready to be left alone. I realize having a dog restricts your traveling ability, and I have never had an issue with that) but I really…really.....want to do this program.
     
    Option 1: Board her. Many places I looked at won’t even consider taking a dog with dog-aggression issues (and rightfully so I suppose, I can see their point). I don’t even know if the local vets would board her. If she was in a run and the only thing separating her from another dog was a link fence, she would go berserk. Plus she has never been boarded before, so three days without “mommy”  and little human contact would likely be terrifying to her.
     
    Option 2: Parents. I could leave her with my folks (after much begging and pleading) but that would involved driving 500 miles round trip in  day, then flying the next day out to Michigan, come back after a few days, then making another 500 mile round trip in a day. It’s doable, but I really wonder if I can take that much heavy travel in such a short period of time, so I am looking at alternatives. She would also have to spend a lot of time by herself , but would at least be walked once or twice a day. For her, this is the best option. For me, it is probably the worst. I can totally see myself being run ragged and being a tired mess for the symposium.
     
    Option 3: Leaving her with a friend/acquantiance. Not very likely. Being in vet school, pretty much all of my friends already have dogs, so leaving her with them is not an option. I could send out a pleading email for someone without pets, or at least without dogs, to take her (such people are few and far between here), but I am not sure how well I would trust leaving her with someone I did not know well (paranoia over them letting her loose, not taking me seriously when I say she can NOT be let off-leash, etc)
     
    Option 4: Petsitter. I really don't like this idea because she would be alone 22-23 hours of the day, with someone only coming by for 15 or so minutes a few times a day to feed her,  elt her out, maybe play with her a little, etc.  I think she would go neurotic and chewy and even revert to some of her SA tendencies, even with the cat around to keep her company.
     
    For those of you with dog/fear-aggressive dogs….what do you do with them when you go away for a few days? Of these options, what seems like the best? Sorry to be so neurotic myself about it, but this will be the first time I have left her alone and actually gone out of state, even though it is only for a few days.
     
    Holy moley I just saw my post count...looks like this is the post of the devil! Eek!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I would check pet sitters to see if someone has an option of more time.  The guy who takes care of the pug across the fence comes four times a day and she is outside romping around on her long line with him in tow.  I know its four times a day cause Nora definately gives the stranger alert.  He has her out for at least 15 mintues and the way he dotes on her.... well I would bet he is there for 30 minutes.  That might be enough for me under such circumstances (considering your alternatives).  You could also leave her at the vets and have her some what sedated.  Or maybe a behaviorist would do something of a evaluation over the seminar period.... Some ideas.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I have worked at boarding kennels where we have taken in some rather aggressive dogs. We culdn't do as much with the dog because of the aggression, but as long as we were able to feed it and clean it's run and handle it enough if there were an emergency, it worked out. You could try bringing her to a kennel ~ or the vet's ~ for daycare so she has time to get used to it. Although if it were my dog, I would leave her with the parents or a friend.
    • Gold Top Dog

    There are boarding and training places that will take your dog in for boarding and also train and work on behavior problems. You may want to continue searching for the right place.  It may be expensive but it would resolve two of your problems.

    • Gold Top Dog

    corgipower
    I have worked at boarding kennels where we have taken in some rather aggressive dogs. We culdn't do as much with the dog because of the aggression, but as long as we were able to feed it and clean it's run and handle it enough if there were an emergency, it worked out. You could try bringing her to a kennel ~ or the vet's ~ for daycare so she has time to get used to it. Although if it were my dog, I would leave her with the parents or a friend.

     

    If you haven't already, I would consider asking a good trainer to evaluate your dog with other dogs.  Unless you have done this, you don't know if your dog is just reactive on leash, or would actually be aggressive off leash as well (I'm sorry, I just don't remember if you've posted about this already).  If your dog is non-aggressive to other dogs off leash, you might be able to leave her with a friend as long as they don't have her on leash with another dog nearby, or even at a group boarding facility.  If she can't be with others, call a few local trainers and ask if there are any trustworthy boarding facilities that could handle her.  If you start hearing the same kennel name, go pay them a visit and see how they operate and where she would be housed.

    If she has stayed overnight at your vet's before, and is familiar with the environment (and, more importantly, the workers there), maybe that would be less scary than a whole new place. If she's a real scaredy dog, then anyone walking her should be encouraged to double leash her from a harness and a collar (unless you use a martingale that she isn't likely to back out of).

    • Gold Top Dog

    DPU
    There are boarding and training places that will take your dog in for boarding and also train and work on behavior problems.

    I would recommend looking into one of these places - even if you don't want to pay for the extra training, the staff there should be knowledgeable enough to be able to handle your dog and make things un-scary and comfortable for him. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    My boarding kennel takes dogs like this too, so look around.  If all out fails, make the trip to your parents and do it a day early.  But does your parents know how to handle a dog aggressive dog?  What if they are walking and problem starts, do they understand what they would be signing up for?  Actually,  anyone beside a boarding type situation would have to understand completely what they are getting for a few days.  I am sure you know this, but thought I would mention it anyway.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes, she is aggressive off-leash as well. It is a true "Oh my gosh, I don't know you, I had better bite/growl/lunge first before you do!" - even though she never actually causes any damage when she has been in scuffles. This is something we've been working on for a looooong time. She has made some very good strides (much less leash aggression, ability to "sit and watch" while another dog goes by, we have managed to work down from only being comfortable 50+ yards away from a strange dog ,to be comfortable 5-10 yards away from a strange dog, etc) but I still do not "trust"her - it is still hard to gauge how she will react to any given dog.

    I like the idea of a combined training and boarding place. I will look into that although I do not know how many of those there maybe in rural SW Virginia .Cost is certainly not an issue (I will pay whatever it takes for both my and her peace of mind).

    My parents are aware of her issues (I have left her with them for a weekend occasionally) and, rather that put it on their shoulders about how to "train" her, I have a "If you see another dog, just go the other way and act all excited and happy, talk to her" - the method I used back when we were first starting desensitization. They've never had a problem with her just following that guideline, since it is easy for them and they do not have to worry about "reading" her.

    I might just leave her at the vet's for an evening and see how she does, as well. The trip would not be during a "high boarding" time , like a holiday, so she could probably be in a run not immediately adjacent to another dog (if there was enough room between them, she would probably be nervous but would be able to "deal"

    Thanks for the advice, all. I am a terrible worrywart about her sometimes.

    • Gold Top Dog

    If you do board and train, and the place does not use positive training, everything you have accomplished may fly right out the window!!!!  If you are in a rural area, my guess is that there aren't that many positive trainers.  Most of those places are operated by people who do traditional style, or Schutzhund training.  Please think again before you commit to allowing your dog to be trained with choke chain and corrections - this is NOT how you managed to get your dog that close to another dog.  You did it nicely, and you taught her a default behavior which she is starting to use!!!  She has excellent bite inhibition.  I suspect that her problem is largely fear based.  Please don't send her somewhere where fear of the aversive (correction) is the way they train.... your dog will lose in the end.  This is a dog I would board at a place that has individual kennels separated by solid barriers, not chain link.  In fact, if your parents don't need to walk her off their property, and they have a fenced yard, I might pick them over the kennel.  At least your dog would not have to hear, and be stressed by, all the dogs in neighboring crates.  JMHO

    • Gold Top Dog

    our dog sitter actually lives in our house when we are gone- not all petsitters just show up once or twice a day for a few minutes.

    • Gold Top Dog
    spiritdogs

    If you do board and train, and the place does not use positive training, everything you have accomplished may fly right out the window!!!!  If you are in a rural area, my guess is that there aren't that many positive trainers.  Most of those places are operated by people who do traditional style, or Schutzhund training. 

    An awful lot of assumptions there. Even a B&T using positive motivation training can go to waste if the owner doesn't maintain it afterwards. Also, there certainly can be positive trainers in rural areas, or there can be no trainers in rural areas. There are many B&T places that are run by people who do PR training and clicker training. And there are a lot of Schutzhund trainers using positive motivation and even some using clickers.
    • Gold Top Dog

    corgipower
    An awful lot of assumptions there. Even a B&T using positive motivation training can go to waste if the owner doesn't maintain it afterwards.

    I think the idea being that the OP has already done a lot of hard, consistent, patient training with the dog, so leaving the dog in the hands of an unskilled trainer could not only un-do all the good work but could do some lasting damage to the dog's psyche.

    How's the boarding search going, anyway? One thing to remember is that boarding at a "board & train" facility doesn't necessarily have to mean you also are requesting training.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I train Schutzhund and use LOTS of positive reinforcement and clicker training.  I think this is the biggest problem for Schutzhund.  Everyone seems to think that everyone beats the dogs so that they bite or something (not saying that that's what you were saying, spiritdogs, but that does seem to be in everyone's minds).  It seems to me that training for Schutzhund obedience is much more difficult than AKC obedience.  In Schutzhund, the dog actually needs to be and look happy while it's working.  That's a HUGE part of heeling.  I don't know many dogs that would look happy while heeling if they'd had all this rough/hard techniques used on them.  I could be wrong, of course...  I'm not trying to bash anyone here, but it just irks me when people find out that I train in Schutzhund and they automatically think that I'm some kind of crazy dog-beater that doesn't care about my dog. 

     As far as a boarding idea...I would probably be against the boarding with training, just because you never know how someone is going to be training your dog when you're not there, unless you have time to really interact with the person who will be working with her, and approve of the training they will be doing.  Our boarding facility has concrete painted walls that separate runs and the dogs are taken out separately to do their business and get a little outside time.  It works out really well for dog aggressive dogs.  We take them and rarely have problems (the biggest thing we have is taking them outside and back inside to their kennel, since their are dogs on either side of the aisle).  If you could find something similar, that might be your best bet.  :)  Good luck!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    As far as a boarding idea...I would probably be against the boarding with training, just because you never know how someone is going to be training your dog when you're not there, unless you have time to really interact with the person who will be working with her, and approve of the training they will be doing

     That is sort of my fear of leaving her with people I don't know in general. Now, I know I am not dog training expert, but I know what works for her, I know how she will react in the majority of situations, I know what her "calming" mechanisms are, how to deal with fear aggression in general since I have lived with it every day and every walk (all the things like no coddling, being calm and assertive, giving them an outlet to their fear by directing it towards something they know how to do and is familar for them - for Ginny, it is the 'sit' command and the 'wait' command since we have worked on that since I first got her, and she knows it very well.). And I am very pro-positive training, don't worry spiritdogs! :) The one, and I mean only, time I ever slapped Ginny on the nose (I was tired and frustrated and she had jumped on my and accidently scratched me) the little "eep!" yelp she let out just broke my heart. That was three years ago and I have never even come close do doing that again, and we have made tremendous strides using + training - she thrives on "succeeding" and getting praise.

    Of course, I am not saying I am better than a professional trainer in terms of what is best for my dog. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that since I know her so well, if there is going to be "professional training"  I should be actively involved. I can see her getting confused if trainer X or Y does something different than me. Plus, training around here is limited (although actually very + based). I would only be gone a few days, and I  would think that it would take at least a week for a trainer to really "understand" Ginny - as we all know, no two dogs are alike in their aggression/social issues/fears! So by the time "tailored" training would start, I would already be back and probably very anxious to see her again.

    I talked with my folks and they say they would be ok keeping her, and I do trust them to take the "right" care of her because they have done it before and know my instructions (my dad is very dog-oriented). However, I will keep looking...because I know sooner or later in her life I will have to board her, so there is no use putting it off. Might as well try to get her used to it now, right? Just so a few years down the road if I have to go to a conference or something, I don't have to race around looking for friends/pet-sitters and feel relatively confident she will be ok.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I would look for a pet sitter who will stay in your house.  I know a number of people who use these type of sitters and they work out very well.  I know there is a assocaition of pet sitters at petsitters.org.  They might have listings in your area.