Submissive, Yet Aggressive!?

"Submissive aggression" is definitely a possibility. Some call it "fear biting". I hope others come along with some advice, but you could Google those phrases to see what's out there. The only thing I would advise is an obedience training class.  

How long have you had the new addition?

If I had to make an early guess I would say this dog is trying to find her spot in the pack....yes, submissive in the beginning because, she is unsure and trying to find entry into the pack without getting hurt, but trying to find her place......her being on your lap and biting a dog next to you is a form of resource guarding......this dog has yet to settle into your group of dogs.....

snownose

How long have you had the new addition?

If I had to make an early guess I would say this dog is trying to find her spot in the pack....yes, submissive in the beginning because, she is unsure and trying to find entry into the pack without getting hurt, but trying to find her place......her being on your lap and biting a dog next to you is a form of resource guarding......this dog has yet to settle into your group of dogs.....

 

My thoughts there as well.

At this point in the game, with resource guarding and what could be fear aggression as well, I would eliminate all furniture privileges to this dog.  My goal would be to provide structure through routine, and NILIF to show this dog that he's not the boss now, and he's got no chance in becoming the boss.  I would also put a short "drag" line on this dog and keep it on him always.  This will give you a way to control him or remove him from situations with relative safety.

 

do you know anything about her background? if she wasn't socialized to dogs as a pup it's possible she doesn't read dog body language very well and isn't picking up properly on what your other dogs are saying to her.

Hi agree with Snownose an Xerxes.  This is very early in the acclimination process into a new environment, new people, new dogs.  This happens quite often when I bring in a new foster into my home.  It is very important that the new dog has an established relationship with you and responds when you interrupt this behavior.  If not, then separate.  Under no circumstances should the new dog be with other dogs without human supervision.  I say this not because of your situation but it is just a standard practice with me for a month or two. 

 Snownose and mudpuppy have brought up good points.  My problem with either scenario is the issue of bite inhibition.  If this is fear or insecurity, fine, but most dogs that have had early socialization DO understand the concept of inhibiting one's bite.  Thus, when the spats occur, no blood flows.  If she is puncturing the other dogs, that is not a very good sign that she was socialized properly and that mudpuppy's take on this could be accurate.  This is a dog I would watch carefully, and I would not give her lap privileges!  Do not artificially elevate her over your resident dogs in that way.  Why was she being sold?  I would ask the previous owner about her history with other dogs, and her socialization history.  Maybe someone was not entirely honest with you. 

Xerxes

At this point in the game, with resource guarding and what could be fear aggression as well, I would eliminate all furniture privileges to this dog.  My goal would be to provide structure through routine, and NILIF to show this dog that he's not the boss now, and he's got no chance in becoming the boss.  I would also put a short "drag" line on this dog and keep it on him always.  This will give you a way to control him or remove him from situations with relative safety.

     Just to answer a previous question, we've had "Bailey" just about a week ... My first thought was resource guarding as well, but I wonder if that's the only thing coming into play here, since she did snap at other times? She did it again this morning when one dog tried to get in "her" crate. The problem is my dogs are so accustomed to the "what's mine is yours" pack dog mentality, and I don't think the new girl came from an environment like that. When indoors, my dogs pile up on me (literally, lol), share crates, etc.

     At this point, I've already taken away her her furniture privelages and am seperating her from most of the dogs. Depsite her attitude, they alre all still trying to befriend her, even my alpha bitch & male. So I'm thinking she really is ultra submissive. I am not 100% sure at this point tho.

     Of course, obedience training is the first thought I had. Problem is, she's a show dog, has never been introduced to formal obedience and I'm very leery about doing any sort of in depth obedience w/ her. She's a finished Champion, but I'd like to continue showing her. So I'm kinda between a rock and a hard place here, and not sure if obedience is going to help her, even??? I'm wondering if this sounds like a socialization problem - with people & new places she's GREAT. This sounds strange, but it seems like she is familiar w/ other dogs, but doesn't know how to co exist with them ... It's very strange behavior.

     Regarding the drag line - I have a basic idea as to how this works, but can anyone explain to me more about it? Is it something I use just like an extended leash to keep a closer eye on her?

spiritdogs

Snownose and mudpuppy have brought up good points.  My problem with either scenario is the issue of bite inhibition.  If this is fear or insecurity, fine, but most dogs that have had early socialization DO understand the concept of inhibiting one's bite.  Thus, when the spats occur, no blood flows.  If she is puncturing the other dogs, that is not a very good sign that she was socialized properly and that mudpuppy's take on this could be accurate.  This is a dog I would watch carefully, and I would not give her lap privileges!  Do not artificially elevate her over your resident dogs in that way.  Why was she being sold?  I would ask the previous owner about her history with other dogs, and her socialization history.  Maybe someone was not entirely honest with you. 

     So far, she hasn't broken the skin. What she does is clamp on to the other dogs, usually on the face, and just doesn't let go. She got my 10 month old pup right by the eye, and that could have been a disaster if her tooth had been just a hair lower :( It's upsetting my other dogs, obviously, however they're not taking her actions as threatening, they are still curious about her & are trying to be friendly. I know that if the behavior isn't controlled it could get bloody ...
 
     What you said about artificially elevating her status REALLY makes so much sense!!! She's such a sweet dog to people, is so affectionate that it's hard not to want to fuss over her, but I think you may have hit the nail on the head! Maybe I'm confising Bailey as to her status??? In which case, my bad, I get a rolled up newspaper to the snoot! Her lap & furniture privelages have already been suspended. I think I may need to bond with her in a different way, for now. I'd hate to pay less attention to her, it's my nature to feel sorry for such a sweet little thing, but I'm probably doing more harm than good.

     BTW, she was being sold as the owner was getting out of Beagles - she shows Corgis as well and decided she needed to focus her attention on them. I know she was living with her littermate sister, maybe she was picked on by th eother bitch? I actually don't think the previous owner was being deliberatey dishonest with me, but I'm beginning to think she lied by omission. When I picked up this dog, she had open, bloody scabs on her ear, and the tip of her tail was bloody. She had a large, open one inch long hot spot/sore on her tail. Her teeth are ROTTED. She still has discharge from a litter she was weaned off from a few weeks ago. I have her on amoxicillin and all raw. With just that little intervention, her hot spot is dried up already. I was so worried that it had gotten infected while she was being shipped & I'd never have sold a dog in that condition. So I do think she isn't feeling her best and thing that could be a small part of the problem.

      

HoundMusic

     BTW, she was being sold as the owner was getting out of Beagles - she shows Corgis as well and decided she needed to focus her attention on them. I know she was living with her littermate sister, maybe she was picked on by th eother bitch? I actually don't think the previous owner was being deliberatey dishonest with me, but I'm beginning to think she lied by omission. When I picked up this dog, she had open, bloody scabs on her ear, and the tip of her tail was bloody. She had a large, open one inch long hot spot/sore on her tail. Her teeth are ROTTED. She still has discharge from a litter she was weaned off from a few weeks ago. I have her on amoxicillin and all raw. With just that little intervention, her hot spot is dried up already. I was so worried that it had gotten infected while she was being shipped & I'd never have sold a dog in that condition. So I do think she isn't feeling her best and thing that could be a small part of the problem.

Could she still be being bitchy from the pregnancy and motherhood hormones?  Or maybe those in combination with the pain from her sores and her teeth?  Might she be trying to tell the other dogs to stay away because she is afraid they might jostle her?

GoldenAC

Could she still be being bitchy from the pregnancy and motherhood hormones?  Or maybe those in combination with the pain from her sores and her teeth?  Might she be trying to tell the other dogs to stay away because she is afraid they might jostle her?

     See, that's what I was thinking. Not to say that there isn't a behavioral issue going on, but she's got to be uncomfortable from that bad sore on the tail. I clipped away the fur this afternoon to clean it better, and it's twice the size that I originally thought it was. It wraps all the way around the tail & is about two inches long. At least it's dried up on the amoxicillin, but still. It's pretty bad ...

Yikes, poor thing!! I would keep her separated from your pack, both for her sake and for theirs, plus you don't want to have them become leery of dogs because she is trying to bite them all the time. I would give her time to heal physically and psychologically while she adjusts to you and learns to trust and to respect you. I would gradually introduce her to the pack, one at a time ~ supervised. Let her build relationships with them individually before putting her into the middle of a pack situation. Although honestly, I think this dog might be better off in a one dog home.

I think its a combination of many possible things.  I know when I brought my rescue home they were not allowed alone together unsupervise for at least two months.  And I interviened when hackles went up.  I also think that pain could be part of it too.  I used alot of NILIF on my new rescue just so she knew from day one that her status was important.  I hope she comes around but it will take some time.  Good luck!

 If she is not breaking skin, she is not intending to break skin - that's good news!!!  A "muzzle grab" is a ritualistic behavior, and does not generally suggest that serious aggression will follow.  I would eliminate toys and bones from the common areas, just to prevent resource guarding, though, and I would allow the dogs to work out their differences without interference (obviously, if they escalate, you would rethink that).  I'm always reminded of the Pia Sylvani video where she shows three dogs who were having fights at the stairway.  The owner had been told to make the dogs go up the stairs in order, and she was making the GSD go up first, and there was a fight every time.  Pia simply told her to release the dogs to go  up in any order.  Every time, the Golden Retriever went first, and no fights;-))  The GSD didn't care about who went first - the Golden did.  So, letting the Golden naturally go first removed the reason why the fights occurred.  Owners often support the wrong dog - because "dominance" is contextual and fluid.  A dog who is very dominant about who gets the rope tug might not give a rat's butt who goes up the stairs first.

My adult females would almost certainly snark at a ten month old pup just on general principle LOL, so I don't find this unusual at all - at that age, they have "run out of puppy license" and an adult dog no longer considers them the same way they do puppies, which they are generally more tolerant of.  Again, not a scratch - good for her!  Telling all the dogs off, but with great bite inhibition.  Good tape to watch - Trish King's "Multiple Dogs".

I would definitely take her to class or do some training with her - you are far better off in a multi-dog household when all the dogs have a higher level of obedience to you. 

I know this thread is a week old, but I'm curious about something.

HoundMusic

Problem is, she's a show dog, has never been introduced to formal obedience and I'm very leery about doing any sort of in depth obedience w/ her.

Why is that? Why can't show dogs have formal obedience training? I know..well..nothing about showing dogs, so really I'm just curious, not trying to say or imply anything.