The behaviour interpretation thread

DPU

spiritdogs

 Being technochallenged, I'm probably not going to be a firsthand participant here, unless someone wants to visit me and tape my dogs... but I just wanted to say that I agree with mudpuppy. 

I believe I did that but yet you or Muddpuppy have not commented on the behavior in my video.  The video does appear to contradict many things you have said about dog behavior.  I admit that when Drizzle was getting too involve I did give her the COME command.  This interrupted her behavior but she went in a very round about way to come to me.  In another video, where she did appear to get too involved, the COME command worked.

The smaller dogs greeted each other appropriately, first with side of the face, then inguinal sniff, circling, and play invitation behavior.  They seem like pals, with similar play styles, and though they cursorily greeted your black Dane, they seemed uninterested in playing with him.  He seemed to want to interact, but not sure how to do so, and they weren't inviting, so he just kept attention barking.  Drizzle, the latecomer to the group, does not seem to have very polished doggy social graces - and I think less dominant than socially inept in a bullyish way.  Dogs that are dominant, socially appropriate and stable do not go running up to other dogs and act pushy or posture over them BEFORE even a side of the face sniff.  This is a pushy dog, and an inept dog, not necessarily dominant in any or all situations.  Your fluffy dog is offering, very appropriately, the signals that she should to try to diffuse the situation, and the Dane is not even acknowledging it, and in fact continues to obsess on the poor thing - a dominant, but socially appropriate dog would accept the deference and move on.  Actually, your most confident dog might be the dog who walks between them to diffuse the situation - and in fact does it more than once!  The playmates, IMO are a very socially appropriate pair of dogs.  I think it's the Danes who lack canine language skills - I'd be curious to know what their puppyhoods were like in terms of socializing with other pups and adult dogs.  They don't know the language or doggy social graces as well as the smaller dogs do. 

Keep in mind, this is just what their behavior as seen is telling me - I have no history on your dogs, which would certainly impact how I interpret.  I just watched and responded.  I do not see that Drizzle should have thought to "protect" anyone, since both dogs were enjoying themselves in obvious play mode.  Now, arousal may have led to the behavior she exhibited, but I see her more as the "fun police" than the defender, at least in this clip.   

corvus

 

And Bella is so cute I want to eat her all up. My partner has expressed a desire to get a bulldog specifically for poking. He says he'd sit in his big chair and say "Bring me my poking dog!" and someone would scurry in with a bulldog on a red velvet cushion (somehow) and hold it out for him to poke. Possibly with a pipe. That he would buy specifically for poking the poking dog as he doesn't smoke. 

That had me holding my sides with laughter!  Thank you!  That is the sort of thing I can imagine my DH saying... he is a total wally when it comes to stuff like that! 

spiritdogs

Actually, your most confident dog might be the dog who walks between them to diffuse the situation - and in fact does it more than once

I feel silly now for not having mentioned it, but I had noticed that too. The splitting behaviour was quite well executed on behalf of the dog, and the other dogs seemed to pay heed to it.

spiritdogs

Now, arousal may have led to the behavior she exhibited, but I see her more as the "fun police" than the defender, at least in this clip

An interesting way to put it, the "fun police" but I agree actually, based upon that video. I do think Drizzle was attempting play, but her apparent lack of appropriate play knowledge (do Danes have a particular play style? Some breeds do, but I don't know if Danes do or not - do they play much with feet like Boxers do?) was showing through, as she wasn't great at reading the signs of the other dogs that they were giving back to her.

It's so interesting watching dog vids, I can't wait to be able to watch the next one (have to wait till tomorrow when I can watch on high-speed again...haha).

corvus

do think Blizzard is quite intense

Just a note: the one you think is Blizzard is Drizzle. Blizzard was her littermate and went to the Bridge not too long ago. In fact, her mourning the loss of Blizzard is a chief concern for DPU right now.

Also, I had watched the video the evening before with the sound up. I love huge, deep barks and was distracted by Petro's sideline commentary. Watching it again the next morning before commenting, I watched it with the sound off (5:00 and DW asleep) and it actually allowed me to watch the motion. I may have been wrong on the idea of Drizzle protecting Marvin but it did seem a little off-balance, so to speak, to have 3 dogs playing on one.

Interesting interpretations and I can see why the comments were made based on what is seen.  Here is another clip that is from the same outside session.  This clip is after the squirrel left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4tZ_98mDAg

This time, I took less time. I watched with the sound on, then again with the sound off.

Drizzle's got the action going with the ball. And Marvin's playing with her. Petro would like to play, but not necessarily with Marvin. So, he tries to play with Lexi, who eventually goes over to try and play with Marvin and Drizzle. Then, a little later, she, in turn, tries to play with Petro. She rolls the ball at him and changes stance, slightly away. He returns the greeting and they trot off camera. Marvin breaks the third wall and looks at the camera. What a ham!

Molson is just too cool. Strolling by with the doggy equivalent of "whatever. I'm off to my spot over there."

I see even better now that Petro is definitely keeping his distance from Marvin, whereas he will get in close with Drizzle or Lexi. And I think you're dogs look happy in this sequence. I think they find some equilibirium playing with who they are most suited to play with. Though I do think it's interesting that if Marvin thought that Lexi was his playmate that Petro couldn't share, that it's interesting that he didn't have a problem with it this time. Is the chew toy that powerful of a motivator, for lack of a better word, to not care that Petro's making off with his girlfriend?

ron2

Just a note: the one you think is Blizzard is Drizzle. Blizzard was her littermate and went to the Bridge not too long ago. In fact, her mourning the loss of Blizzard is a chief concern for DPU right now.

Faux pas! I'm sorry, David, I meant Drizzle but my fingers typed Blizzard. Too many double zs! 

I saw more of what you were saying in this one, too. I could see that Petro was wary of getting too close to Marvin but was confident enough with the other dogs, making me reassess what I thought last time as being Petro's confidence being boosted by Drizzle's presence as Petro being nervous of Marvin.

Drizzle also seems more relaxed in this one. I wouldn't have said she was socially inept from the first one, as she seemed to be deliberately intimidating Lexi to make a point. I don't think of bullying or pushy behaviour as socially inept behaviour. Jill who blindly steps on other dogs is socially inept. Penny who gets pushy when she's unsure or feels a need to feel in control is not socially inept. She's displaying the right signals to get what she wants, which is for another dog to let her control a situation. It often works. Jill on the other hand, is always surprised when one of the other dogs snaps at her, even though the warning signs were blindingly obvious even to the humans. 

spiritdogs

Actually, your most confident dog might be the dog who walks between them to diffuse the situation - and in fact does it more than once! 

That would be foster hound Marvin who has been in my home for over a year.  I have worked a lot with Marvn to better his social ineptness and from that experience I have realized the importance of social interaction between dogs and work quite hard to set up an environment and situations that teaches them social skills.  When Marvin first came to me he was very inept, socially.  He would be like Corvus's Jill and walk all over any dog to get from one point to another. He would even step in poop, something that every other dog naturally goes around.  There were many Marvin behaviors that irritated the other dogs. I am glad to hear that what I have been doing is working on this particular dog.  Marvin still has the 'Mr. Allmine' syndrone but has gotten better at sharing.  Definitely improving in the right direction.

ron2

Though I do think it's interesting that if Marvin thought that Lexi was his playmate that Petro couldn't share, that it's interesting that he didn't have a problem with it this time. Is the chew toy that powerful of a motivator, for lack of a better word, to not care that Petro's making off with his girlfriend?

Marvin seems to love all female dogs.  So yes, the combination of a female dog and ball is a higher value than just Lexi.  Also, remember I focus on improving the social interaction of the group, so an object has added value by associating the object with a social event.  Marvin plays a kind of tug game with Drizzle for the ball, not so much because it is a favor object but because Drizzle has it.  They have to touch and I am glad to see it is done in a very gentle manner.  A huge improvement in Marvin and a social skill taught by Drizzle.

corvus

I saw more of what you were saying in this one, too. I could see that Petro was wary of getting too close to Marvin but was confident enough with the other dogs, making me reassess what I thought last time as being Petro's confidence being boosted by Drizzle's presence as Petro being nervous of Marvin.

Drizzle also seems more relaxed in this one. I wouldn't have said she was socially inept from the first one, as she seemed to be deliberately intimidating Lexi to make a point. I don't think of bullying or pushy behaviour as socially inept behaviour. Jill who blindly steps on other dogs is socially inept. Penny who gets pushy when she's unsure or feels a need to feel in control is not socially inept. She's displaying the right signals to get what she wants, which is for another dog to let her control a situation. It often works. Jill on the other hand, is always surprised when one of the other dogs snaps at her, even though the warning signs were blindingly obvious even to the humans. 

To repeat, the entire video runs about 15 minutes and the two clips are in the same outside session.  I find it so interesting how a situation can change so fast.

There are many parts of video where Marvin uses different approaches to keep Petro away from the female dogs.  Petro does not like it but he won't retaliate back.  For the very first time last night, that is first time I saw this, Petro tried to initiate play with Marvin and Marvin just stood there and did not know what to do.

I agree, Drizzle is not socially inept because as you see from the clips, she has a serious side and playful side.  I don't think she is the "fun police".  I interpret that as a spoiler which I would charactize as Marvin.  This is her pack and I believe her behavior is intended to make the entire pack stable again.   To me, she stopped the play between Lexi and Marvin by disciplining Lexi and then proceeded to demonostrate appropiate play by using Marvin.  Note how observant Lexi is.  They are a new pack and they are all learning.

I don't think it is correct to assume that all dogs automatically know other dog's body language.  I believe they have to learn and it takes time.  Lexi is bringing into the pack new play signals that the other dogs have not seen. 

Here is a behavior I have never seen before.  Paganini has been recently spayed and now fully recovered.  She is lifting her leg when she pees and squirts it.

 To answer Kim's question about play style in Great Danes, I notice that the Danes in my play groups like to do a lot of parallel running, and are willing retrievers of tugs, balls, and other toys. They tend to be in contact and bump each other lightly as they run (not obnoxiously - no one seems to mind), and they like to tug.  Two in particular have a habit of carrying the tug down the hall together at a gallop (glad I don't have to sit on the first floor with that racket over my head LOL).  Neither of those dogs mind if another dog grabs on as well (we had four dogs on one Wubba last night).  They willingly play with most of the Labs, leave the herders alone, and are fascinated by our small dogs, and generally lighten their style to accomodate them.  I have one that will completely scrunch himself down on his side after a play bow to "make himself small" to get a little dog or puppy to play with him.  The playmates they seem to choose most often include Ridgebacks, Boxers, Labs, Mastiff mixes (we don't have any full mastiffs at this point, though we have had in the past), and the occasional exuberant Golden.   These Danes have been playing in off leash play groups since puppyhood, and are excellent at canine language, and easily interrupted when they get too intense.

DPU

Marvin seems to love all female dogs.  So yes, the combination of a female dog and ball is a higher value than just Lexi.  Also, remember I focus on improving the social interaction of the group, so an object has added value by associating the object with a social event. 

That makes sense, to me.

DPU

This is her pack and I believe her behavior is intended to make the entire pack stable again.   To me, she stopped the play between Lexi and Marvin by disciplining Lexi and then proceeded to demonostrate appropiate play by using Marvin.  Note how observant Lexi is.  They are a new pack and they are all learning.

That makes sense, too. Now that I think about, that could certainly be what happened, as she did not hurt Lexi. It just looked like a melee with them all jumbled together, in the first segment.

DPU

I don't think it is correct to assume that all dogs automatically know other dog's body language.  I believe they have to learn and it takes time.  Lexi is bringing into the pack new play signals that the other dogs have not seen. 

I can also agree to that and mention that it reminds of one of the things I liked from the non-linear dog theory. Dogs set up a colloquial language with each other that might be different than how other dogs view it. For example, Shadow carries his tail up a number of times. Some other dogs might see that as an intimidation move but for Sibes, it is how they carry their tail, either curled over the back or in a hook.

Any more videos from anyone?  I like the interpretations and this type of dialogue is very helpful.

I am going to post a flirt pole video in the photo section soon. If anyone has any feedback on that, I'm open to it. Of course, there is human interaction, but the prey thing is something I'm really becoming interested in. The Shepherds seem to really respond to our tapping into that. I'll post a link to it here (in this post), too. 

-------------------------- 

This is my husband's first try at the flirt pole. He did really well. I've been doing it a week and the dogs are getting some great exercise (plus some great massages afterward!) They LOVE it!

Video 

Very Important!
If you decide to use a flirt pole, I strongly advise the following for the health and safety of the dog:

- Start SLOW with short sessions (I started with 5 minutes)
- Do a warm up ahead of time and a nice walk afterward to cool down. 
- Don't jump the dogs high.
- Work on a soft surface like lawn or tilled dirt 

(Jaia says, "Don't forget to tell 'em to give the doggies a massage"!) 

FourIsCompany

Of course, there is human interaction, but the prey thing is something I'm really becoming interested in. The Shepherds seem to really respond to our tapping into that. I'll post a link to it here (in this post), too. 

Sorry again but I need more information and I know you will teach me.  Ok, at the end of string is a toy.  Why are you associating this activity with tapping in the dog's prey drive?

Secondly, I am curious, for this activity is the toy unique enough for the dogs to distinguish from other toys?  I see this as a social event for the dogs and the toy has attached to it, a string, a pole, and the owner.  Do the dogs ignore the toy when it is sitting by itself and not attached to anything?

DPU

Why are you associating this activity with tapping in the dog's prey drive?

Because prey drive is stimulated by the movement, not the particular toy.  

I think for Jaia, it's more play than prey. He LOVES to play with these toys. He fetches them, chews them and gives them back to me to throw again. B'asia herds him while he's doing it, but doesn't fetch the toys.

For B'asia, it's a totally different story. There's a look in her eyes, her bark (she's the one barking), her stance... when working on the flirt pole that tells me she's tapping into something different. Also, she's the one who always chases in the same track as the toy. She follows it because she can't NOT follow it. Jaia does a lot of waiting for it to come around and goes in the opposite direction to "meet" it and catch it, because his drive isn't as engaged as B'asia's is.

Do the dogs ignore the toy when it is sitting by itself and not attached to anything?

B'asia does. Jaia might, but he also might play with it. Most likely, he'd bring it to me to play tug or throw.