What an Animal Behaviorist Looks Like on Paper

spiritdogs

That is not to say that there are not some very good dog behavior experts that come in other forms, but if you have a serious problem, folks like this have spent a lot of time and energy learning how to help you.

I agree, the chances to find someone who is a "natural" in this field are very slim (even when there is a couple people out there who didnt go to college but have the skills to handle a situation like a pro or even better because the numerous years of real life experience they have)

I would suggest also to do a very good research if you get a professional to help you because we all know that having a college degree does not mean they can not do a crappy job, examples of professionals doing crappy jobs: Lawyers, Doctors, Plumbers, Electricians, Dentists etc.

Is always a good thing to research on people's opinions before choosing the best person to do the job, i think there is not better test than that 

 Wow!  Blimey.  Cor.  Etc.  I am impressed.  The amount of work that has gone into that is phenomenal.  Thank you for posting spirit!

Years of real life experience don't mean squat to me spence.  I know a very "experienced breeder " who has been doing it wrong for the last 20yrs or so.  She is not up to date with recent findings that would help her breed and raise better pups, nor is she up to date with the more recent ethics... ie. only breeding to better the breed not to churn out pups to make money.  She's just doing what she's always done because she thinks it works and she can't see the bigger picture. 

Chuffy

Years of real life experience don't mean squat to me spence.  I know a very "experienced breeder " who has been doing it wrong for the last 20yrs or so.  She is not up to date with recent findings that would help her breed and raise better pups, nor is she up to date with the more recent ethics... ie. only breeding to better the breed not to churn out pups to make money.  She's just doing what she's always done because she thinks it works and she can't see the bigger picture. 

Of course there are those with lots of years of experience and did it wrong from the beginning, but dont tell me either that you always choose a fresh out of college dude who never worked in the field before to be your dentist

Dont tell me that the Ian Dumbar of today is not better that when he came out of college. I dont think that your "feeling" of "real life experience don't mean squat to me" its 100% accurate, i think for you it does (just like for all of us) but what you wanted to say its that having also years of experience does not mean they dont do a crappy job

Like i say, other people's opinions are very valuable, if you can see the way they work before you hire him even better

 espencer, I think that there are incompetent people on both sides of the spectrum.  There are some newly graduated dentists, and vets or behaviorists for that matter, that are really excellent.  Sure, they do get better with experience.  But, there are also people similar to the person Chuffy described.  We should never assume that a credential is indicative of excellence, or that lack of a credential is evidence of incompetency.  But, I do think that a solid education, wherever and however it is obtained, beats the person who simply ignores science to spout undereducated psychobabble or the type who has  been-doin-it-that-way-forever-if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it.  My reason for posting these vitae was simply to show how much study some people undertake in order to be able to practice in this field.  I have a lot of respect for that level of commitment, since I know how much work I put in to just my undergraduate degree and research, plus the time, travel and expense I've spent over the years for all the workshops, seminars, etc.  These people went the extra mile to get doctoral degrees and pursue graduate research and establish a business through which they not only serve dog owners, but provide quality continuing education to other behaviorists and trainers.  Impressive, I think.

spiritdogs

I think that there are incompetent people on both sides of the spectrum.

Agree 

spiritdogs

I do think that a solid education, wherever and however it is obtained, beats the person who simply ignores science to spout undereducated psychobabble or the type who has  been-doin-it-that-way-forever-if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it.

That contradicts your first statement, you can have a solid education and be incompetent

So you can have degree or not, spent years studying or just be natural at it, dogs do what works and thats what all matters

So like i said before, is always better to do research first and see if the person you are going to hire is an incompetent with a degree, a certified professional with years of experience and excellent results, some one with only years of experience and poor results or someone with only years of experience and excellent results

You are putting your money down for a service and you should not take any risks only because "looks pretty on paper", it does not matter which profession we are talking about 

espencer

That contradicts your first statement, you can have a solid education and be incompetent

It doesn't contradict at all.  The person who has taken the time to educate themselves is still better than an "experienced" person, who is mostly experienced in doing it wrong, and largely doesn't have an understanding of what they do. 

Chuffy

Of course there are those with lots of years of experience and did it wrong from the beginning, but dont tell me either that you always choose a fresh out of college dude who never worked in the field before to be your dentist

LOL!  I have no idea how much experience my dentist has, she is quite young actually.  I trust that she HAS been to college.  I trust that the field that doctors and dentists work in is well-regulated. The field of dog trainers, behaviourists (and breeders!) is NOT regulated, therefore I would do the regulation myself.  That is why the OP is helpful.

espencer

I dont think that your "feeling" of "real life experience don't mean squat to me" its 100% accurate, i think for you it does (just like for all of us) but what you wanted to say its that having also years of experience does not mean they dont do a crappy job

Sorry, yes, I should have been clearer.  Experience alone means nothing to me.  If they have a ton of experience ON TOP a sound education, a thorough understanding of what they do and why they do it and good references, then GREAT!!  A person can have years of experience and no scruples about misleading, overcharging or mis-advising their clients.  Or they could have the best intentions, but without real knowledge they could get it very very wrong.  Many people contact a professional when their dog is being aggressive, especially if there are children involved.  A shaky foundation of knowledge could be HIGHLY DANGEROUS in cases like these. 

Chuffy

It doesn't contradict at all.  The person who has taken the time to educate themselves is still better than an "experienced" person, who is mostly experienced in doing it wrong, and largely doesn't have an understanding of what they do. 

So be an incompetent with a degree is better that someone who has been in the business for years with first hand experience and giving excellent results, being on the top and no college education? Do you realize how illogic that sounds?

I will give you an example, the hotel industry, lets say that a fresh college graduate finds a job in a hotel, unless his dad is the owner of the hotel its mostly sure he will start from below as a font desk receptionist, now there might be someone who didnt go to college (and i have seen it) who started from the very below working cleaning the public areas or something like that, that person that used to clean the public areas and never went to college took his time to be also an "intern" with the bell boys, after a while he became one, he was that good that he became bell boys supervisor, from there he started being an "intern" with the front desk, after a while he became one of them, he was so good that he became supervisor and after that manager on duty (something like a shift manager in a restaurant)

There is no way that the fresh out of college can come and be better hat the manager on duty that spent 10 years in different departments and learning the business first hand

A college degree gives you better chances to go higher and not start from the very low, but this is an example that a college degree sometimes does not beat only years of experience, if the college dude comes with a "but i have a college degree" attitude, he would be kicked out of the hotel the next day because the guy with only years of experience has shown his work ethics for 10 years to the owner, the college kid has 4 years of studying but the other guy has 10 years of first hand experience and he did it right from the beginning

I'm only saying that having a degree does not guarantee 100% that all of them, without the exception of any, be better than someone who didnt go to college but did it right from the beginning, there are not to many, but there are exceptions
 

espencer

So be an incompetent with a degree is better that someone who has been in the business for years with first hand experience and giving excellent results, being on the top and no college education? Do you realize how illogic that sounds?

"Incompetent" does not equal "inexperienced". 

What I SAID was: an experienced person who has a sound education and a thorough understanding of what they do and why they do it is better than someone who is experienced in doing it wrong.  And I said nothing about excellent results.  YOU added that part in, in order to twist what I said and make it sound illogical.  We all have our own definition of "excellent results".

espencer

I will give you an example, the hotel industry, lets say that a fresh college graduate finds a job in a hotel, unless his dad is the owner of the hotel its mostly sure he will start from below as a font desk receptionist, now there might be someone who didnt go to college (and i have seen it) who started from the very below working cleaning the public areas or something like that, that person that used to clean the public areas and never went to college took his time to be also an "intern" with the bell boys, after a while he became one, he was that good that he became bell boys supervisor, from there he started being an "intern" with the front desk, after a while he became one of them, he was so good that he became supervisor and after that manager on duty (something like a shift manager in a restaurant)

There is no way that the fresh out of college can come and be better hat the manager on duty that spent 10 years in different departments and learning the business first hand

I understand what you are saying.  My friend has this problem.  She has been to university and is now in her twenties and is qualified for a managerial role.  As a matter of fact, she DOES have plenty of experience, which she gained while she was getting her education.  But prospective employees don't want to employ someone of her age in that kind of role.  Many of the people below her would be several years her senior.  So she is over qualified for most jobs and too young for others!

My understanding is that anyone interested in becoming a trainer or behaviourist works with other trainers and learns from them, gaining in experience.  They are extremely likely to complete their education and not have any experience!!  Such a trainer would be rare, I think, as that's not how the business works.  Unless my understanding of it is incorrect.

Chuffy

And I said nothing about excellent results.  YOU added that part in

I indeed added that part since your:

Chuffy

The person who has taken the time to educate themselves is still better than an "experienced" person

Its just TOO general, i just added my excellent results example to indeed prove my point that is not always like that

Bottom line: A college education is always good and better to have (thats why i have one) but does not guarantee you will receive a quality service from some of them 

Spence, please can you stop doing that?

espencer

Chuffy

And I said nothing about excellent results.  YOU added that part in

 

I indeed added that part since your:

Chuffy

The person who has taken the time to educate themselves is still better than an "experienced" person

Its just TOO general, i just added my excellent results example to indeed prove my point that is not always like that

That's NOT what I said!!  THIS is what I said:

The person who has taken the time to educate themselves is still better than an "experienced" person, who is mostly experienced in doing it wrong, and largely doesn't have an understanding of what they do.

MY bottom line:  If a person doesn't have an education, why not?  Don't they care about improving, learning?  HUMAN teachers go on development courses ALL THE TIME!  It's called CPD.  (Continued proffessional development)  Vets, doctors etc.... they all have to keep up to date with recent findings that affect their work.  I'd be astonished and put off if a person, not only hadn't got that education, but hadn't continued it.... was ignorant of, or dismissed out of hand, the recent findings that impacted their chosen field of work.

in this day and age I wouldn't trust any "behaviorist" unless they had some sort of credentials on paper. Maybe in the past, when it wasn't possible to study and get credentialed, experience and references were enough, but not anymore. What's the excuse- "I already know it all so why should I study and get a degree"? If you had a dog problem that was serious enough that you needed to hire a behaviorist's help, would you hire someone with an attitude like that? not me.

mudpuppy

If you had a dog problem that was serious enough that you needed to hire a behaviorist's help, ....

That is a great point mudpuppy. The seriousness of the problem would definitely determine the level of education or expertise one should seek. For extreme cases I think one is wise to find the person with most credentials as possible. For the average dog with typical behavioural issues sometimes the help you require can be obtained from persons who have no formal and/or limited education in dog behaviour, but has years of experience with dogs. My dog has had a few issues over the years. None of them overly serious or dangerous (thankfully) and although some may shudder my first choice for advice, direction and remedy is my good friend, who on paper is no more than a dog walker, but in practice has years of experience with dogs, knows me, knows my dog and is very intuitive and dedicated. 

yes, exactly. If you just have a few minor irritating problems, any experienced dog person can probably help you; if you have a dog who is biting you, or dogs seriously fighting, or something of that sort, you want someone you know is the best of the best.