Is crate training cruel?

Crates are a tool and crate training helps establish behaviors that make it easier for a dog to manage in society.  A properly crate trained dog is safer in transport, can be handled by rescue workers in the event of a catastrophe.  A crate trained dog is able to participate in competition more easily.  A crate trained dog will be more comfortable if over night at a vet, kennel, or in a strange location.  A properly crate trained dog prevents damage to home and other property and prevents dogs from getting into things that are dangerous.

 As to how to make it a pleasant experience, if the site is any good, those things would have been addressed there.

A lot of people here use crates.  We won't judge you for it!  Always have the dog associate the crate with "good stuff", feed his meals in there, hide treats and toys in there for him to find, that kind of thing.  Never use it as a punishment.  Only use it for short periods initially and let him become used to it gradually.  Always try to leave him with something nice like a chewy or a stuffed Kong.  With ours, they always has a stuffed kong in the crate and never got one at any other time, so they practically fought to get in there!

Just reading through the page, I do agree with most of it, except this part:

If he must be left alone while you're at work, then a larger crate is okay. Put a stack of newspapers at one end for him to use when you can't be home to let him out.

Avoid accidents in the crate at all costs!  If the dog gets used to going on or near his bed, eventually the crate will be useless as a house training aid.  If he must be left alone, I would give him a safe, enclosed, easily cleaned, dog-proof area - maybe part of the kitchen or bathroom.  I'd leave the crate open inside it so the dog had a cosy den to go to, but if he was desperate, he wouldn;t be forced to soil it.  You could put paper down for ease of cleaning.  You should make every effort to have someone come and let the dog out for you if he is going to be left for a long time.  This will prevent accidents, but it's also kinder for the dog.

Don't give in to his complaining or tantrums! If you're sure he isn't hungry or has to go poddy, ignore his yowling

A lot of people do this with no problems, but do try to avoid him yowling in the first place if you can.  For example, make sure he goes to thetoilet before he is confined and leave him with something to chew on.  Also, only leave him for SHORT periods at first and let him out before he becomes restless.  This is far preferable to either letting him cry (and possibly build up a negative association with being shut in there) or letting him out when he cries (and rewarding him for being noisy!) 

If he gets really obnoxious, reach inside the crate, give him a little shake by the scruff of his neck and say NO in a deep, stern voice.

I vehemntly disagree with this.  This is a GOOD WAY of getting yourself bitten by A LOT of dogs and frankly I wouldn;t blame a dog for biting a human for doing that.  So please don't do it!

If you give him the run of the house at this age, you can expect accidents! 

This is true - ONLY if you are not providing adequate supervision.  I house trained our last pup without a crate, but we were letting her out to the toilet all the time... every 15 minutes at first!  Make sure you let him out: after eating, drinking, waking and long periods of chewing or playing, whenever he circles, sniffs, paces, is restless, or whenever he has not been out for a long time.

Rather than crate the dog excessively, keep doors closed or use baby gates to keep him near you and actively WATCH him.  Have you tried tethering him to you?  Don't expect him to "ask" to go out - that will come later, if it comes at all.

I couldn't read through the page since my dial up is slower than spring this morning.

Agreed, don't reach in and scruff.  With my last litter I attached an x pen to the crate and THAT was the potty area for overnights but I do agree that it is not a good idea to put papers in the actual crate.

One of the biggest things you can do is to get your pup to a positive reinforcement puppy class.  You can't train a pup, completely, in any area by doing what your friends tell you to do, or reading a book.  Going to a class teaches YOU how to teach your pup.

With potty training one of the biggest problems is generally too much freedom too soon.  Now you've "taught" your pup that peeing in the house is ok....repetition reinforces behavior.  Get yourself some Petastics, and completely saturate anyplace he's had an accident.  This is important.  SATURATE....pee goes through carpet into the padding and if you don't get the enzyme destroyer down there, you don't eliminate the odor.  And if HE can smell it (and his nose is thousands times more sensitive than yours is) he thinks its ok to pee there again.

I wish you'd come here a few months ago......but, you're here now and we'll help in any way that we can.  I often get young fosters who are untrained in any way, and the occassional litter of pups, so i've got plenty of ideas to share.  If you want to PM me, feel free.

I consider "crate training" puppies to be essential- what if your dog needs to be crated after surgery later in life? how do you plan to transport the dog in a car- crate is by far the safest method of transport. And of course it is pretty much impossible to house-train a dog without confining the dog somehow. Crates can also be very useful in teaching essential skills like not-running-out-the-door-into-traffic. Here's a DVD on how to train a dog to enjoy his crate, and how to use the crate to help train the dog:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1363&ParentCat=43&string=crate%20games

That said, I think dogs should not be routinely confined in a crate for longer than four hours at a time- that is where the "cruelty" aspect rears its ugly head. For longer periods of confinement, try an x-pen or a puppy-proofed room. When you are home, try tethering your dog to you with a hands-free leash, so he can't eat the furniture or sneak off and pee on the rug when you aren't paying attention. I think dogs should be carefully supervised until around age 2, in order to keep them from developing bad habits.

I agree with mudpuppy, even if you choose not to crate in your home, I think any dog needs to be crate trained for many reasons - what if you decide to get into sports like agility where the dog must be crated during a trial, what if the dog gets sick or has surgery and the vet orders crate rest, what if you have to travel a long ways in the car or on a plane, what if something happens to you or you have to take the dog somewhere and crating is necessary.  IMO it's best for the dog to crate train and associate the crate with positive experiences, so if in the future the dog needs to be crated, it doesn't totally freak out and become destructive or mentally unstable.

My dogs sleep on dog beds at night and typically have free access of the house, but both are crate trained.  Kenya is fully crate trained, meaning she will go into her crate willingly.  It's basically like her den.  She prefers to sleep in there because it's comfortable and quiet.  When I am preparing her food, she runs into her crate (she eats in the crate).  If I need to crate her and I say "kennel", she goes right in.  When new people come over, she prefers to be "safe" in her crate (she is skittish).  Coke is basically crate trained.  He doesn't spend time in his crate willingly if other people are around, but if we are gone he doesn't put up a fuss being crated.  He also knows that meals happen in the crate.

When we are gone during the day we alternate between crating and leaving the dogs out.  They were always out, but then we had some accidents in the house, some excessive cat chasing, and some over-excited peeing when we return so we are using crates at the moment.  However, they are never crated for longer than 3-4 hours at a time and not more than 4-6 hours a day total (never at night).
 

I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is if they need to be crated later in life.  Willow was never crated and somebody gave me a crate.  I told her to go in and she did.  At the groomers they sometimes put her in a crate if they need too, never a problem. 

willowchow

I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is if they need to be crated later in life.  Willow was never crated and somebody gave me a crate.  I told her to go in and she did.  At the groomers they sometimes put her in a crate if they need too, never a problem. 

Yeah, but some dogs freak out.  It might not bother Willow, but not ever being confined, and then suddenly being put into a crate can really freak some dogs out--if their body is already in a weakened state from a medical issue I can't see how the extra stress would be good for them. 

willowchow

I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is if they need to be crated later in life.  Willow was never crated and somebody gave me a crate.  I told her to go in and she did.  At the groomers they sometimes put her in a crate if they need too, never a problem. 

I just think it's easier for the dog if they get used to it when young. 

I think a crate is actually a kindness for a dog if you do it right.  Some dogs aren't all that keen on going to new places... they get nervous or maybe they get over excited.  A crate can help enormously, it can help to calm an excited dog or give a shy dog a confidence boost.  It can also help a dog who is confused or overwhelmed if you take him on holiday or take him visiting.... because his crate is a bit of Home.  It smells familiar, it's comfortable, it's safe....  If the dog has been "crate trained" then the crate does not have that value for them.... they might not totally freak out (although some will) but on the other hand, it won't be particularly reassuring for then either.  Make sense?

For puppies, a crate is as invaluable as a cot or playpen for a human infant.  It helps to keep them safe if you can't watch them.  You wouldn't let a baby wander about peeing everywhere, chewing stuff, sticking his fingers in an electrical socket....  And it helps to ensure they get plenty of rest which is vital for  puppies in order for them to thrive and develop properly. 

If you have children AND dogs, the children must not be allowed near the crate.  Remember the Fs (Flight or Fight).  If the dog knows that children will not encroach on this space, then at least he has the option of Flight and doesn;t have to resort to the other one.  Having said that though, a crate is a double edged sword that can turn in your hand.  It should be a cosy den, a bolt hole for him to retreat to when he is tired or overhwelmed.  But it can become a corner that he is backed into with no way of getting out.  This is another reason for kids to stay away from it... kids shouldn't bother the dog there, or it will lose it's value to the dog as a bolt-hole...and also because once he is in there he is effectively cornered (which is why scruffing him in there is a very bad idea).

It depends on the dog. Once we got the right kind of crate for Conrad, he pretty much crate-trained himself.  But Marlowe? The first time I shut the door to his crate he pretty much was like "OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU'RE KILLING ME AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!" I still have him go to his crate and shut the door every morning while I get Conrad settled in his crate and get myself together to leave the house, then I let him out. He's gotten a lot better and I keep the crate as part of his daily routine for all the reasons talked about above (he is crated in the car, he has had to have lengthy overnight stays at the vet in the past, he is a prospective agility dog, so all those things apply to us), even though he doesn't actually stay in the crate during the days anymore.

Please please whatever you do take the words of Chuffy to heart regarding where that page is very very wrong about crate-training. Do your utmost to prevent accidents in the crate--do not supply newspaper, do not get a crate big enough for the dog to potty in one end and rest comfortably in the other. That will not help potty train your dog, it will just reinforce that house is an acceptable area to potty. And for the love of Pete, do not try to intimidate or frighten or punish your dog for any reason while they're in the crate, even if they are raising holy heck. The crate needs to absolutely positively be the VERY BEST place in the whole entire house, it needs to be an inviolable safe space for the dog.

Here's a much better page on crate-training and the uses of crating: http://www.inch.com/~dogs/cratetraining.html 

sillysally

willowchow

I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is if they need to be crated later in life.  Willow was never crated and somebody gave me a crate.  I told her to go in and she did.  At the groomers they sometimes put her in a crate if they need too, never a problem. 

 

Yeah, but some dogs freak out.  It might not bother Willow, but not ever being confined, and then suddenly being put into a crate can really freak some dogs out--if their body is already in a weakened state from a medical issue I can't see how the extra stress would be good for them. 

Especially not only being confined, but then being left alone (like at a dog show, with tons of other strange dogs/people nearby), or being confined in a strange place (vet's office, boarding kennel).  Coke is crated once or twice a day for an hour or two at a time, but I know if I took him to a show and crated him so I could do a walk-through, he would howl and howl and howl....

I second that houndlove - it's a MUCH better site!

Agreed. Crate training is an important part of socialization. I've seen dogs injure themselves, because they aren't used to being in a crate. I've had to feed dogs sedatives all weekend, when I worked at a vet's office, because they were flipping out over being in a crate.

If Em hadn't been crate trained, it would have been much more difficult to get her used to showing. I had no idea, when she was a puppy, that I'd be doing competitive obedience with her, and I had no idea what a dog show was really like.  Her training prevails, though, and she lays right down her her soft sided crate, while I walk away from her, at dog shows.

 My dogs are crate trained. It is how I house trained them and kept my home from being destroyed as puppies. However neither of my Golden's like their crate, but they will tolerate it if they have to. I am all for crate training, you NEVER know when your dog will need to be in a crate (vets office etc). That being said it and may have been stated (sorry I didn't read all extremely carefully) never put a dog in a crate as punishment. The crate is also the dog's safe space. My first lab, loved her crate, but she learned if she did something naughty, if she made it to her crate she was "safe" from punishment. The little stinker. She was good for a long time, one day her crate door was open (she technically was not using it anymore) and she pulled a naughty, she ran into her crate and got stuck! It was a small crate we only expected to have it while she was a small pup. I had to laugh!

jennie_c_d

If Em hadn't been crate trained, it would have been much more difficult to get her used to showing. I had no idea, when she was a puppy, that I'd be doing competitive obedience with her, and I had no idea what a dog show was really like.  Her training prevails, though, and she lays right down her her soft sided crate, while I walk away from her, at dog shows.

Yep, crate training is essentially if you want to be able to use soft crates at shows!  I know *I* do b/c I have a large dog so a collapsible soft crate weighs about 1/4 as much as a wire one. 

At our rally match on Saturday, my friends dog went into Kenya's crate and Kenya went into Macy's crate (which is funny b/c Macy is half the size and has a much smaller crate) and I just sorta forgot she was in there.  I went to do my walk-through and the judge's briefing, all the while Kenya, a German Shepherd, is in a 32" crate (GSDs are normally in 42"s) AND I never zipped it shut!  I came back, saw the zipper undone and was about to panic when I saw Kenya curled up in the little crate, oblivious to everything.  Phew!