Patricia McConnell and the Unhappy Border Collie

I have seen a variety of people like this, unfortunately.

spiritdogs

Do you know people who love their dogs, but have no clue, and the dog is miserable?

Well, I don't think my female terrier mix is miserable but I know she has been misinterpreted many times by me. After having a Walker hound whose body language and communication was pretty much a "what you see is what you get," my terrier puppy was so confusing to me! She had ears that stuck out (not long like a hound's) and I couldn't figure out why they would move in a million directions when I'd talk to her! Why she would stand there staring for a LONG time, frozen on the spot, when I wanted her to do something! (She still does, sometimes, but then she sees my hand signal and she comes running with a smile.)

She is very different from my first dog and it was far more of a difficult transition for me to go from having this hound for a decade to this funny puppy with moving ears. The more I've learned (thank heavens) the easier things have been but it hadn't been easy and it doesn't help having all kinds of theories trying to inform this relationship. Sometimes a trainer would tell me she's being defiant and other times a trainer would tell me she's confused and I wanted some theory to hang my hat on.

Well, I've learned that nobody is going to do the hard work for me and I shouldn't want them to, either. I think books on body language are wonderful and that all new owners need to take time for reflection and journal writing as they get to know their furry companion. 

I know tons of those people, from "my golden retriever has a big backyard to run himself" (and then they ask them selfs why he is digging the yard upside down and why he is chewing their furniture) all the way to people who are amazed that their dogs attacked someone because their dog has been always "so sweet"

I think is not about the ignorance to not know if your dog is happy or not, but the ignorance of not knowing what your dog needs, those people get dogs to fulfill their own human needs an as long as the human is happy they assume the dog is too  

espencer

those people get dogs to fulfill their own human needs an as long as the human is happy they assume the dog is too  

I tend to think this hits the nail on the head many times.  So many people simply see their dog as either a trophy (because it's a "PUREBRED" whatever -- and the sheer breed is supposed to give you the shivers and impress you; or because it looks 'tough' or 'cute' or whatever) or simply an amusement. 

Somehow most of those people probably don't make it to training classes -- because most of them don't care enough TO train -- at least when someone goes to a training class they admit there is a lack somewhere, allbeit most of them assume it's the DOG's fault not theirs.  But it never ceases to amaze me how most people assume a dog wil be 'fine' with food, shelter, water and a toy. 

But then, I think that's merely human to be so incredibly self-centered.  Most of them probably assume their kid will grow up to be their mirror image, go to the same school they went to and want the same type of vehicle they have as well. 

But then I think that's part of the beauty of messageboards ... if we can manage to all stay civil enough not to alienate the very ones who need us ... it can open a whole new world to people and help them appreciate their dog on a whole new level.  Yes, there are 'books' but what was the national study that came out a few weeks ago that said the overwhelming percentage of the population of the US hadn't even cracked a book in the entire last year?  *sigh*

spiritdogs

Do you know people who love their dogs, but have no clue, and the dog is miserable?

Yes. My mother and father in law are such people.  They have an 11 year old Cocker spaniel, Sam.  They truly love this dog, but just don't know any better.  Sam was from a BYB.  They knew some people who had Cockers on their farm and they got Sam for free as a puppy.  He knows "sit" and "shake", but never took any obedience classes or any form of training or socialization.  My two main concerns for him are his food obsession and his actual diet.  After spending 8 days at their house this holiday, I am convinced Sam is truly obsessed with food.  It is very sad to watch.  I alternate between thinking he is funny to feeling terribly sorry for him to just being angry.  He is so obsessed with human food...I don't know how to describe it.  For example, if we all are sitting around in the den having a snack, Sam is just running frantically from person to person, looking for food.  He jumps on the couches, scratches at peoples' legs, stands up on the end tables.  The look in his eyes is almost disturbing.  He's not necessarily getting into peoples' laps and taking the food (sometimes he does), but just watching him be so focused and obsessed on constantly checking from person to person to person is heartbreaking for me.  He also does naughty things like opening the cabinets and pulling out all the trash and actually getting ON the dining room table and eating food.  During dinner, again he runs under the table from person to person.  When it's an actual meal, he will growl and bark at people for food, or just quick jump up and grab anything that's within one foot of the table's edge.  His obsession for food trumps everything else in his life.  He loves going for a walk, but if he even *thinks* that someone else might be holding food, he will not even avert his eyes no matter how many times you yell his name or "walk".  The second problem is that he is old, fat, and has been feed a terrible diet of the lowest quality dog kibble his entire life.  He is free fed.  He has severe chronic yeast infections in his ears.  I have been trying to convince them that this is probably diet related, and if not due to an allergy, it certainly would not be made worse by trying a better food.  He is also free-fed.  I think he gets so much human food due to his obsession that he honestly is rarely hungry for dog food.

I have always been aware of these problems, but did not realize how severe it was until we spend the week there.  DH's mom kept saying that he's an old dog and they don't think it would be worth it to start over with his diet and training.  Well, in ONE clicker session I taught him to press an Easy Button and do "down".  I also finally spoke up and insisted that he is NOT deaf, his ignoring his name and other words he knows is because of his food obsession.  For 11 years they have reinforced it by NOT training him to stay off the table, get out of the kitchen, and eat the trash.  Instead, they just yell at him or correct him, but there is no real training or follow through.  The second you turn your back, he is on the table or in the trash.  Also, everyone gives him treats when he begs.  They let him lick out their bowls and cups.  Once time I was using my body to back Sam up and luring him into a down and I said, "What is this dog's deal with my cup?" and they said, "Oh, he always gets to lick our cups after snack time so he just expects it."

There are other problems with this dog as well (lack of socialization, barking/growling, no leash manners, etc), but the food thing is the worst, IMO because I do think that it very negatively affects the dog's mental health.  I'm glad I taught him two new commands and showed DH's mom what it means for us to wait for a dog to offer a behavior and THEN reward it and how quickly they WILL catch on.  They are the type that will say "down!...down!" over and over or try to push him down.  I said, "Just watch, he WILL do it...he just has to think about it and remember what earned him the treat last time..."  That bugs me too, saying a dog is too old to learn new tricks but then seeing him do a trick and expecting him to instantly do it from now on, not even giving him 5 seconds to offer it.
 

We went visiting for new years and they had a dog there.  Some people were letting off fireworks close by and the dog was going mental.  (Turned out they stuck the firework into the ground too hard and it never acyually went up in the air so no wonder it was so loud!) 

Anyway, she was running up and down, barking... they were laughing at how mad she was, "look she hates them ha ha ha"  She was panting, salivating, her eyes were getting a kind of glazed look and she was repeating the same thing over and over at high speed.... I felt soooo bad for her.  I asked if there was anything anyone could do to help calm her down because she looked like she was about to start having a seizure and they went, "oh yeah, she does have fits actually...." so then they started yelling at her to sit, no DOWN! OI!  stop it! thats enough! quiet!  SIT I said!  Lie down!  Come here, NO!!  COME HERE!!  Go to bed!"  Are YOU confused???  The poor poor dog.

I asked if she had a toy she could play with, thinking I could distract her, but they said it wouldn't make any difference.  I played tug with her squeaky with her for a bit and then she lay down and chewed by herself.  Tugging and chewing seemed to help relieve her a little, but I don;t know, just not being laughed/shouted at might have helped...  I felt so sorry for her.  I mean, that seemed even worse to me, they must have been anle to SEE how badly stressed she was, but they just thought it was funny.  I can forgive owners who just misunderstand, but when they understand and LAUGH when the poor dog is about to have a seizure?  I could have throttled them.

Both what Chuffy and Liesje said is exactly what I meant.  When a dog is perhaps 'loved' but truly is seen as  a possession rather than as a member of the family and hence **as responsibility** then it's taken no further -- my parents always made our dog 'behave' (sometimes far far FAR FAR too harshly) but when it came to health issues, they'd just shrug.

In fact, my mother was so devastated to lose their last dog (who died of a heart attack and had known heart problems but no meds were ever given and no vet care for it was ever given) that Mom refuses to ever "go thru that again" so they won't get another dog.  They tell me how stupid WE are to "spend that kind of money ON A DOG".

I't like Mom knew they should have done something for Pip and secretly I think that's REALLY why she was torn up -- that she could have done something had she been willing to spend some money on him and wouldn't "because he was JUST a dog". 

It's like with training the obese dog -- they allow all these behaviors that are hearily unpleasant but they don't want to spend the time and effort to correct them.  Partly because they're clueless and don't know how (altho NOW they've been exposed to how easy it might be), and partly because historically they've been taught to think "just a dog" isn't worth the effort.

I think what frustrates ME is that these are people who do have their foots in farming -- and trust me.  A farmer takes GOOD care of that herder who rounds up the cows to get them in the barn at night but it's like once it's tied to the financial straits of the farm it's suddenly "equipment" rather than "pet". 

I often wonder, deep down, how many people don't bother to train their dog simply because they think "lavishing time" on an animal somehow diminishes them in some way or makes them look foolish to others.  And yet the respect that a well-behaved dog earns ... *shaking my head* ... you get out of it what you put into it.

Altho most of us (with the time and effort we spend even on messageboards) seem to realize that the time and effort we put into our animals actually is returned far more than our investment.

I see it now and then. Some people express it right up front. "I wish my dog could do that."

Well, they haven't learned how to let the dog know what they want. Then, I whip out the remote control (the clicker) and show them a few things. It's not magic. All I did was let Shadow know when he had done what I wanted.

I saw another family with three dogs. The small girl barely able to hold on to the leash of a small dog. The hubby dealing with a collie that was fairly biddable and another dog (from a distance looked like a some type of Heeler mix). The Heeler mix had a cinch leash around his neck and fought against it at every instant. They were trying to go into Petsmart. The wife went in to get a shopping cart to put the Heeler in.  My thought was maybe the cinch collar wasn't working. If they knew better, they might try a GL, Easy Walk, or even a prong. Anything other than a slipknot.

Of course (and i assume this happened to each one of you too) i really want to give those people some insight about what their dog is really going through but the owners still act like if everything is fine and they just dont listen, their brain still tells them there is nothing wrong, is easier to blame the dog (personality, breed, etc) than themselves for not doing something about it

With the retriever that digs i told the owner after numerous complains that his dog was ruining his yard, "well he is a high energy dog and you dont take him out for walks AT ALL so he has pent up energy accumulated and will find his own way to get rid of it" What he did? He just built a fence to have the dog inside a cement area so he could not dig, presto, no digging and STILL no walking the dog, how convenient, can you say "selfish"?

Is it selfish to get a dog specifically so that you'll become more active as the owner?

I'm generally shocked (but shouldn't be anymore, I know) by how many people do not regularly exercise their dogs. It's nuts, people, to NOT exercise your dog. I have always believed in that, even when I had no clue that such a thing as "dog training" existed (outside of military and circus and dog-celebrity training).

Oh boy--I hear you all. I do.

 I think that sometimes we get so caught up in what's the right way to do x, y, or z with our dogs that we forget how lucky our dogs actually are that we are willing to actually take the time to care about their needs.

I used to work with a lady who has a GSD.  They got the dog as a pup, and would occasionally take him places when he was small and cute, but stopped when he became larger.  They started tying him out and barely took him on any walks, so he was extremely bouncy and wound up.  Eventually, they stopped having him in the house all together.  He now lives in an 8 ft by 8 ft kennel that is bricked over.  He has a ball in his kennel and that is about it.  At night he is taken to the garage and crated in a crate without even a blanket.  He never, ever goes out except to be transfered to the crate or kennel and has become *extremely* dog aggressive--to the point that he will even seriously attack puppies....  

sillysally

 I think that sometimes we get so caught up in what's the right way to do x, y, or z with our dogs that we forget how lucky our dogs actually are that we are willing to actually take the time to care about their needs.

I used to work with a lady who has a GSD.  They got the dog as a pup, and would occasionally take him places when he was small and cute, but stopped when he became larger.  They started tying him out and barely took him on any walks, so he was extremely bouncy and wound up.  Eventually, they stopped having him in the house all together.  He now lives in an 8 ft by 8 ft kennel that is bricked over.  He has a ball in his kennel and that is about it.  At night he is taken to the garage and crated in a crate without even a blanket.  He never, ever goes out except to be transfered to the crate or kennel and has become *extremely* dog aggressive--to the point that he will even seriously attack puppies....  

And I'll bet that if anyone suggested they get help for the dog, or send him to a home that would know how to manage him, they'd look at you like you were nuts.  After all, it's only a dog... 

I actually don't see a lot of what I would consider unhappy dogs. I know a lot of dogs who aren't especially well trained. They have little or no recall, jump up to greet, will take your fingers along with your treat, pull on their leash etc. I know a lot of dogs who certainly take a back seat when it comes to balancing personal time and resources. These owners definitely have a different standard and attitude to dog ownership than I do, but I would hesitate to say their dogs are unhappy or label them bad owners.

My sister for example has 2 beautiful goldens. Like the lady Anne refers to she loves her dogs. No doubt about that. She feeds them mediocre kibble. Their only exercise is self regulated in the backyard and they have only  basic training like sit, paw etc. She does vet her girls regularly and takes care of their health needs. If you didn't know these dogs, you would probably assume they were unhappy. Yet they are healthy, well behaved (mostly), affectionate, confident and by all appearances happy and content.  When we visit I bring Kobi, who runs x2 a day off leash, given daily mental and physical tasks at home, fed high quality food supplimented with raw, is with me and the family 24/7, groomed, given endless affection, health checked etc. Yet to see the dogs together I can see absolutely no difference in them. My sisters dogs are just as happy as mine. IMO Would her dogs be happier if they had a life similar to Kobi's? Probably, but I'm sure there are other things I could do to make Kobi even happier as well.

I think there are some really sad and unhappy dogs out there who are neglected, abused, sick and/or just generally ignored by there owners. Although we can debate what the ideal life for a dog is, I tend to believe most dogs are extremely adaptable and ruling out mistreatment or abuse can happily exist under most circumstances.   

denise m

I actually don't see a lot of what I would consider unhappy dogs. I know a lot of dogs who aren't especially well trained. They have little or no recall, jump up to greet, will take your fingers along with your treat, pull on their leash etc. I know a lot of dogs who certainly take a back seat when it comes to balancing personal time and resources. These owners definitely have a different standard and attitude to dog ownership than I do, but I would hesitate to say their dogs are unhappy or label them bad owners.

My sister for example has 2 beautiful goldens. Like the lady Anne refers to she loves her dogs. No doubt about that. She feeds them mediocre kibble. Their only exercise is self regulated in the backyard and they have only  basic training like sit, paw etc. She does vet her girls regularly and takes care of their health needs. If you didn't know these dogs, you would probably assume they were unhappy. Yet they are healthy, well behaved (mostly), affectionate, confident and by all appearances happy and content.  When we visit I bring Kobi, who runs x2 a day off leash, given daily mental and physical tasks at home, fed high quality food supplimented with raw, is with me and the family 24/7, groomed, given endless affection, health checked etc. Yet to see the dogs together I can see absolutely no difference in them. My sisters dogs are just as happy as mine. IMO Would her dogs be happier if they had a life similar to Kobi's? Probably, but I'm sure there are other things I could do to make Kobi even happier as well.

I think there are some really sad and unhappy dogs out there who are neglected, abused, sick and/or just generally ignored by there owners. Although we can debate what the ideal life for a dog is, I tend to believe most dogs are extremely adaptable and ruling out mistreatment or abuse can happily exist under most circumstances.   

Denise, EXCELLANT post 95.5% of all dog owners I know are your sister and her family and there is nothing wrong or neglectful at all!!   The other 5% sit on this forum.

How judgmental we can be……………     ?