Had my German Shepherd for 2 years....starting to act aggressive.

Oh for goodness sakes.  Why does everything have to be so difficult??

No, I do not use our relationship to control behavior.  Sheba's reactivity was violent and frightening.  And, I fed into that because it scared the tar out of me when she'd start lunging, snarling and acting like a dog I didn't know.  I have already described how we worked together, how we gradually could move just a little bit closer......if you read I said we paused, I talked to her, we turned around or away.  At no point did I mention treating her, because in this I did not use food treats.  I used nothing but praise, which houndlove is quite accurate in saying is the best praise for this particular gsd. 

Suggesting that I use our relationship to maniupulate Sheba's behavior implies that I did nothing, when, quite the contrary, I worked very hard to EARN her trust, so that she would trust me in every situation to take care of any problems that came up.  I had a very dangerous and unpredictable dog.  Now I have a calm and trusting dog who, when frightened or startles, looks to me.

glenmar

Suggesting that I use our relationship to maniupulate Sheba's behavior implies that I did nothing, when, quite the contrary, I worked very hard to EARN her trust, so that she would trust me in every situation to take care of any problems that came up.  I had a very dangerous and unpredictable dog.  Now I have a calm and trusting dog who, when frightened or startles, looks to me.

No, I am exploring that maybe all your efforts was directed at relationship building and not the trigger, which can be viewed as a measure of that relationship.  Trust is relationship building.  How does anyone know how the counter conditioning is actually working....on the other dog....or the relationship, trust building.

You said it, once the trust was established, this took care of "any problem that came up" .  Definitely worth exploring if that is true.  I am not talking about teaching a dog to sit, but fulfilling the dog's higher level social needs.

I would suspect that Sheba's higher level social need in this instance was to not be terrified all the time.  Mission accomplished.  End of story.

Please note that I didn't suggest that you or anyone else use the method that my behavioralist suggested.  I shared what had worked for me and for my reactive dog.

glenmar

I would suspect that Sheba's higher level social need in this instance was to not be terrified all the time. 

No, the "not be terrified" or fear is the manifestation of the deficient need, fear is not a need.  Lack of socialization need manifest itself in fear based behavior that is triggered by the presence of another unfamilar dog. 

You are presuming that I failed to socialize Sheba properly.  This is not the case.  Her terror stems from a campground incident that happened during a fear stage.  I did not recognize that at the time and that is my fault, but, kindly do not make assumptions that I failed her in any other way because that is not the case.

Further, this thread is straying very far off topic and needs to return to the original topic.

The topic is leash reactivity and a request for solutions and ideas.  Regardless if anyone does not like or is sensitive to my input on looking at the dog's needs first and working from a higher plain, it is a valid consideration for the OP.  Sometimes a direct approach to the behavior does not solve the problem, only surpresses or mask it, and a more generalized approach in getting the dog balanced and the dog's needs satisfied is perfectly acceptable here. 

The topic is leash reactivity and a request for solutions and ideas.

Moderator speaking, 

Exactly...perhaps, what was meant by returning to the topic...was to address the OP and offer the OP ideas and advice...rather than derailing the thread with back and forth. I find that an excellent suggestion. All posting can now work towards that end.

mudpuppy

you risk ending up with a dog that is impeccable in the controlled, slow approach, but is unequipped to handle real-world surprises.

uh, no, when you are done the dog is fully equipped to handle real-world surprises. You have taught the dog a new "default" behavior when exposed to the trigger- to calmly look at mom.

That's well and good when, as I pointed out, the trigger is visible ... you are training the dog to respond in a particular way to an approaching (and known) trigger, ... when there is *time* to consider it and act accordingly.

What I was talking about was surprise. Teaching for surprise (and confrontation) is wholly different. teaching sit doesn't teach down, similarly, teaching calm upon approaching triggers is doesn't teach calm upon surprise or confrontation.

I don't know why that distinction is so difficult to understand. I can only chalk it up to imagining that some folks don't move about in a world that provides real surprise and/or confrontation.

For example, you're walking through a park, and at the edge of a fence, 3 off-leash dogs come barreling down a hill and roll into you and your dog ... your dog may be bomber on the slow approach, but utterly freaked at this turn of events. For example, handler error ... you are novice and nervous, an off leash puppy approaches, you get your dog to sit, but the pesky little pup won't take no for an answer, and your handling skills fail to shoo him off - your dog sees you fail to control the situation and takes over. For example, your dog's been fine with on-leash greetings at 3' ... all of a sudden 3' is too close ... surprise! Training within these real-world scenarios is not a matter of giving up on anything, it's a matter of advancing the lessons and the learning.

My world is hardly calm and surprise free.  Saturday I took Sheba out off leash in a heavily treed area where the hunters don't go.  The trees are so thick that there is barely a dusting of snow on the ground, while in the open we have about 30 inches.  This is a pristine and quiet area where we've never seen so much as a racoon.  No tracks, no sounds, totally silent except for the sounds we make as we walk.  All of a sudden we heard a horrible crashing noise coming from overhead and honestly I was concerned that we were going to get hit with a falling tree or part of one.  So quickly following the noise that I didn't have a second to react, some fool came crashing out of the tree and landed immediately in front of Sheba's nose.  She looked at him, looked at me and SAT her butt down.  And looked at me for direction.  She was probably 10 feet ahead of me and suddenly almost had an orange clad fool fall on top of her, and still she used her default behavior.

The poor guy was frozen in fear (large white german shepherd sitting by his head) and pain since he'd fallen about 20 feet out of his tree stand, I didn't even speak to Sheba, just motioned her to come, put her in a sit stay and went to see to the fallen hunter.  She was certainly curious, and watched intently, her ears full forward to hear, but she did not budge one inch.

I eventually did send her on ahead to the house, knowing full well that if she showed up without me, DH would come looking and the fellow did have a broken leg.  As soon as I had him as comfortable as possible, using my coat, my sweatshirt and my scarf and hat, I did follow her to the house, and met DH on his way out so sent him back in to call for help, etc, while I got some blankets and so forth for the guy.  In all the excitement, Sheba got forgotten and was left in the garage.  We came home after all the excitement was over to find her sitting calmly beside the back door, waiting to be let in.

Is that bomb proof enough?

Awesome story, Glenmar! Thanks for sharing it!

you're quite welcome.

To be honest, I think I was more shaken by the whole thing than my formerly VERY reactive dog was.

Sorry, DPU, I missed your question, but will answer it now.  Sioux was fearful, but was not a dog that lunged forward.  She would bark and back up.  She was not reactive about other dogs, just scary noises and scary people.  So, I used C&CC to convince her that any people we encountered on our travels were going to mean good things happening for her.  I can't tell you how long exactly, but she started this work at about 4 months of age, and continued until she was registered as a therapy dog at the age of 1 year, but certainly not because it took very long for her to "get it". More because of my need to have her be bombproof in a nursing home setting.  With dogs, any behavior, even "down" or "shake" needs intermittent reinforcement or it will eventually be less strong.  So, I never worry about using CC periodically should we encounter something that spooks her, or just for practice.  And, she has gotten to understand that when I ask her to "watch me" nothing bad will happen, and she is to pay attention (although I let her look at the scary thing, a la the "Control Unleashed" suggestions).  Thus, I have been able to have her remain calm in a sit/stay at a Health Fair (about 400 people milling about) while a remote control "talking ambulance", complete with flashing lights and siren, comes up to her and says "Hello Doggie".  The simple answer to your question is that it takes as long as it takes.  All dogs are different.

Glenda, super cool story!

I think the idea is to counter-condition to the presence of the trigger, not necessarily just to the approach to the trigger. Just counter-conditioning to the approach wouldn't make any sense, for the reasons you pointed out. However, in order to actually get up to the trigger without a meltdown, the approach training is the first step. Just how I see it.

Are you still living w/ the person with the Jack Russell?  Maybe he's taking out his frustrations on other dogs, 'cause the JR is driving him crazy!  I know I would, if there was nothing I could do at home about it!  LOL  Just a thought!

Cita

Glenda, super cool story!

I think the idea is to counter-condition to the presence of the trigger, not necessarily just to the approach to the trigger. Just counter-conditioning to the approach wouldn't make any sense, for the reasons you pointed out. However, in order to actually get up to the trigger without a meltdown, the approach training is the first step. Just how I see it.

Exactly! You counter-condition to being around the trigger, not just the approach to it. And since you have to start somewhere, the approach - both by you and the dog towards the trigger, and also with the trigger approaching you and your dog, would only be step one of the process. Desensitization comes in when you start working closer and closer to the trigger so that ultimately your dog is comfortable, or at least functions normally in the presence of the trigger. Glenda's story illustrates this perfectly.

If you can get to the point of polite on leash greetings that's gravy. Maybe you only get to where your dog will ignore the other dog and focus on you, and that's okay too.