Dogs don't get along outside?

Can you give more details?  What is Rakka doing?  Is it all on leash or off too?  Can you walk them on shorter leashed on separate sides of you and not let them interact on walks?

 How old are the dogs? 

Tojo is 2 years old and Rakka is one. This is on or off leash - makes no difference. Rakka runs up to Tojo, jumps on top of him, growls, pushes with her front paws, and tries to pin him to the ground. It sounds like what normal dogs do when they're playing, although it's quite clear to me that neither dog is playing, as it always becomes the two of them growling and squealing at each other, with their ears back. She does it occassionally indoors, but very often.

 Well, could be that your two year old has reached social maturity and is trying to figure out her place in the pack.  Are you doing anything when it happens?  If so, what?

Tojo (the two year old) is quite clearly below Rakka in the pecking order and is quite willing to submit most of the time, although she doesn't leave him alone when he submits.

Oh yeah, as to what I do, I tell Rakka to "leave it" and I break it up, but she usually just starts bugging him again almost immediately.

 If you pull Rakka away or tell her to "leave it", what does your other dog do?  Does he try to leave, stay still, or go toward her?

He stays still or resumes what he was doing most of the time, but he sometimes leaves.

rolenta

They used to be fine and the past couple weeks, it has been like this

 

What changed in the past couple weeks? Anything at all? New food, new toys, new leashes? Any new smells?

It sounds to me like Rakka feels that her position is being challenged by Tojo and is putting him in his place. It almost sounds like an alpha roll. Pinning him to the ground like that.

Do you feed them together? When you give treats, do you give one before the other? Do you find yourself favoring one or the other? How long have you had them?

Pack dynamics can change by death, or an addition, a younger dog reaching adulthood, dogs not spayed going in heat or the male counter part being changed by a female going in heat......environmental changes.......a younger dog challenging a dog in position already.....it is hard to figure out without watching the whole scenario.......have you been watching closely?

FourIsCompany

rolenta

They used to be fine and the past couple weeks, it has been like this

 

What changed in the past couple weeks? Anything at all? New food, new toys, new leashes? Any new smells?

It sounds to me like Rakka feels that her position is being challenged by Tojo and is putting him in his place. It almost sounds like an alpha roll. Pinning him to the ground like that.

Do you feed them together? When you give treats, do you give one before the other? Do you find yourself favoring one or the other? How long have you had them?

The only thing that I can think of is I have been having migraines and they have been getting less exercise, although not a lot less. Rakka still gets outdoor off leash running time almost every day. Food, toys, leashes, and everything else to do with the dogs is the same. She doesn't actually pin him to the ground, although she might be trying and not succeeding, I don't know. She does push him with her front paws. I agree she's being very dominant, by the way she postures, tries to stand over him, stares him down, and such. Sometimes she will llay on the ground in front of him and make all sorts of noises, which seems opposite of being dominant, so I don't really get what's going on between these two. I don't feed them together because Rakka will always try to steal Tojo's food, so I put one outside while I feed the other. Actually, Tojo refuses to eat in Rakka's presence because he knows he will be harassed. I don't give my dogs treats often, although the same generally applies; I rarely give one a treat in the other's presence. I've had Tojo for two years, but Rakka is a fairly new addition. I adopted her in September, so this could just be her still settling in. She is a shikoku, and therefore prone to dog aggression, and her previous owners admit they weren't prepared for that and didn't socialize her with other dogs nearly as much as they should have. I think she gets along with Loki (my other dog) because Loki is twice her size, so it seems clear who the boss is. There was only one altercation between Loki and Rakka (aside from initial snarkiness), and Loki pinned her on her back - she hasn't challenged his authority since and he leaves her alone. I've been paying very close attention to their interactions and Rakka postures to Tojo quite often, but I don't leave them alone together so when I think Rakka's about to start something, I will give her a warning and she usually leaves him alone. For the most part, they leave each other alone inside, although it could be that outside Rakka feels that the rules don't apply and she may attack Tojo at will. I'm surprised that this is the case, though, after the initial settling in, Rakka and Tojo loved to play outside together and would chase each other and play (nicely). Another shikoku owner has told me that his shikoku (actually the sister to Rakka) sometimes picks on the other dogs when she's frustrated or bored... maybe to amuse herself? Perhaps I should be exercising her more strenuously?

Thanks for such a thorough response. That helps a lot!

rolenta

The only thing that I can think of is I have been having migraines and they have been getting less exercise, although not a lot less.

 

I think you have nailed it right here. Rakka needs more exercise. And structured would probably be best. Not just running in the yard, but a nice steady long hike or run. Shikoku need more exercise than some dogs and being a hunting dog makes me think this girl needs to get out and do some pack-oriented movement. I just mentioned in another thread that running with other dogs touches the root of pack behavior (hunting together) and solidifies the feeling of belonging with other dogs. Giving her the feeling of hunting with Tojo would be ideal.

Has Rakka been through obedience or would you consider agility with her? I think she needs some kind of job. A structured exercise where she can use her mind and get out some of her pent up energy. Are you doing NILIF with your dogs? That's another important step.

It sounds like you're doing really well at observation. So, good job.   The fact that she wasn't well-socialized and considering her breed, she sounds pretty normal. I think NILIF, some running with Tojo on leash and some structured exercise would do a world of good.

Also, I would like to see you beef up your role as alpha. Tojo needs to feel that you will protect him from Rakka. His choosing not to eat when she's around tells me that he doesn't feel that YOU'LL protect him. He needs to feel more safe and Rakka needs to know that you won't let her get nasty with Tojo and that only a certain amount or roughhousing will be tolerated. I have stood between my dogs to indicate that I won't tolerate bullying.

And dogs don't generalize well. What goes on inside the house doesn't necessarily translate to outside the house. She could very well think it's perfectly fine to be a meany outside, even though it's not OK to do it inside. It's like she needs to be taught all over again under several situations before she understands that it's not OK to attack him anywhere.

rolenta

Sometimes she will llay on the ground in front of him and make all sorts of noises, which seems opposite of being dominant

 

Last thing, it could be that Rakka isn't sure of her position and needs to reinforce it over Tojo, but I don't think so. If he's willing to submit and she's "playing" submissive, I think she's terribly bored and frustrated and looking to start something. If she acts submissive and Tojo "takes the bait", then she can whip his butt and get out some of the frustration she's feeling.

She's a handful. But I think these steps might at least get to a point where you can evaluate further. And it might just clear up the issue altogether.

Sorry about your migraines. I have them, too and I can empathize!
 

I agree with everything fouriscompany said
 

 Actually, I think that giving them treats in each other's presence is a good idea - IF you hand them out by hand, and they are small enough to be consumed before anything drops on the floor to cause a tiff.  That way, all the dogs learn that being in each other's presence sensibly is a good thing for ALL.  I would ask each dog to do something to earn the treat (this goes along with FIC's suggestion about NILIF, which is a good one).

Also, don't forget, when you up the exercise level, that physical exercise is not enough for these dogs - they need mental exercise, too, which training can provide.  You can work on the "leave it" commnand, especially with Rakka, so that you can call her off from bullying another dog.  Train them seperately, and gradually train in new locations so that they generalize all their commands - sit means sit, even if we are at the beach, park, grandma's house, wherever.  Dogs that posture over other dogs are usually "wannabes" not dominant dogs.  Occasionally, you will find one that cannot bully the top dog, so picks on a lower ranking dog.  Also, there are dogs that will bully a dog that is inappropriate  in the way they defer.  Some lower ranking dogs that are not well socialized will defer endlessly - and they piss off the higher ranking dog who then says "enough".  With what you have described, I'm guessing the former, not the latter.   At Rakka's age, she is figuring out where she belongs in the pack, and this is common behavior.  What's really important is that she realize that you are in charge of all the dogs.