Endorphin blockers?

We tried Elavil with a dog I had that had serious aggression issues and serious anxiety issues. I can say it helped the anxiety a lot (she was a chronic self-mutilator). However, it had an odd effect on her aggression issues. The episodes decreased in frequency, but they increased in intensity - in other words, she went from being a snarler and nipper to inflicting very serious bites. I had the impression that while her tolerance had increased, her inhibitions had decreased.

Elavil is a tricyclic class mood modifier. I have a friend whose dog had a much more serious problem than Trim's - and she's had very good luck working with Prozac - which is an SSRI, a more advanced class of mood modifier. We were getting ready to switch Trim to the SSRI class when she seriously injured my preschool son and I had to find a safer placement for her.

Good luck! I sure do feel your pain . . .

Elavil definitely increases tolerance and decreases inhibitions. I took it, for a bit, in an attempt to control migraines. It didn't stop my migraines, but I didn't care that I had them. I had to quit taking it, because I couldn't stand myself, anymore. I've taken ADD meds, but Elavil really changed the way my brain worked. It freaked me out....

I'm going to bring this up, tomorrow, and see what her vet thinks about it. She's doing great, so far, but she still wants to eat dogs, of course.

FYI - We started Gandolf on Prozac about 6 weeks ago on the advice of a behaviorist after he attempted to bite me.  He's dog aggressive and has had a history of aggression towards humans.  He's, frankly, a happier dog (that's what Prozac's supposed to do for humans, right?), less hypervigilant and has had shown no aggression toward me since then.  I can't say, however, that it has "cured" his aggression, just made him easier to manage. 

I can't say, however, that it has "cured" his aggression, just made him easier to manage.

I don't expect Teenie to be "cured", but I'd like to see happier and manageable. She had a really good day, today. Went to work with me, then went to a friend's house, and had some RMBs (tiny little chicken wing tips) to their high amusement. She got to heel in new places, and she caught on quick. It's FREEZING here, so she sat politely and asked for her fleece. She is getting better. I see a difference, already. I still haven't called him, though. My schedule this week is totally insane.

Does fighting also create endorphins?

JMHO, Oh gosh yes! I've known dogs that get off on fighting...there's no other way to describe it. Their entire body language is so happy when they see another dog because they cannot wait to get in their and grab hold of it. It's very sad and very confusing to owners when they have dogs like that. IMO it does become addicting...the rush of fighting.
 
ETA: And there IS a withdrawl in the absence of it...again IMO only

That's what Teenie does. It's the same thing she does, when she sees prey. She's straining on the lead, ears forward, tail up and wagging, whining, wanting to go. She looks like she's sooooo happy to see another dog.  She was watching my friend's German Shepherds, out the window, today, and wagging and whining. It was the SAME whine that she used when she was looking at the gerbils. It's strange.... It does confuse the heck out of me.

Before a fight, her body posture is tense, but she doesn't look angry or afraid. She looks excited. Her tail is high and flipping (not wagging, but the top half of it flipping sort of like a cat's), her ears are forward, and she'll make little, excited noises, then BITE the crap out of whatever other animal she sees. Emma running has always been a problem (and seriously, YOU stop a 3 yo JRT from running). I'm wondering if this isn't some insane, misplaced prey drive.

Anyhow, if she *is* having an endorphin blast from fighting, endorphin blockers could make a big difference, right? Like I said, before, I'm not really big on drugs. I'm not looking for a miracle pill, and I'm perfectly willing to continue any necesary training programs, but I'm afraid that Teenie has so many years of conditioning, that it may not be very effective (that said, I've never trained an adult dog from scratch before). If drugs will give her a normal life, I'll be more than happy to use them.

I'm not big on drugs, either, but having seen some dogs actually change - and feel better, too - I'm not opposed to trying if nothing else has worked.  I think you might as well stay open minded about it. Sometimes it does work!

Really, I would seek the help of a veterinary behaviorist with a strong background in pharmaceuticals, before going with something like the endorphin blocker. There's a good bit of precedent for the use of tri-cyclics and SSRIs in dogs now, but I haven't heard of this myself (other than in Dr. Dodman's work). Have you done any reading on the endophin blockers, their side effects and long term effects? Not to mention cost. It's nothing I'd really rush my vet into pursuing, before looking at other options (like a consultation with a CVB).

Before a fight, her body posture is tense, but she doesn't look angry or afraid. She looks excited. Her tail is high and flipping (not wagging, but the top half of it flipping sort of like a cat's), her ears are forward, and she'll make little, excited noises, then BITE the crap out of whatever other animal she sees. Emma running has always been a problem (and seriously, YOU stop a 3 yo JRT from running). I'm wondering if this isn't some insane, misplaced prey drive.

 
Your description of Teenie sounds soooo much like Sassy, and Buffy running has always been a huge trigger.  Interestingly, Buffy is pretty smart most of the time and I've watched her sense the chase and she will sit right down and itch her ear with her back leg.  It's clearly a calming signal and it works perfectly.  Unfortunately, she doesn't always remember to do that.
 
When we took them both to a behaviorist early on when the fighting was frequent, she commented on Sassy's high prey drive and suggested giving her outlets for "legal chases".  She demonstrated using a lunge whip with a ball on the end and Sassy was fixated and got quite a workout in a small area.  I bought the Chase & Pull toy and use it to wear her out sometimes and she loves it.  I almost think if I could/would do that everytime prior to allowing the 2 to be together, it might help.

Have you done any reading on the endophin blockers, their side effects and long term effects? Not to mention cost. It's nothing I'd really rush my vet into pursuing, before looking at other options

Not really. I was just going to ask him about it, not push it at all. I'm just curious.

I can't find a CVB within a five hour drive, so.... I really can't do that.

She demonstrated using a lunge whip with a ball on the end and Sassy was fixated and got quite a workout in a small area. I bought the Chase & Pull toy and use it to wear her out sometimes and she loves it. I almost think if I could/would do that everytime prior to allowing the 2 to be together, it might help.

Em would LOVE that type of play, but Teenie doesn't play with toys. I can't get her to. I'm going to have to train her with meatball stuffed toys, and real rabbit skins, I think.