Leash training

glenmar

Walking dogs on lead is just flat not going to give them any exercise

As one of the person with real experience on the walking next to you technique let me tell you that is actually the opposite, i have walked HIGH ENERGY dogs and after only 2 sessions of 20 minutes walks they just want to rest the rest of the day, so your statement of "not providing exercise" is highly inaccurate specially if you dont have personal experience at all with the method, i suggest you to try it for a week and then we can compare experiences, does that sound fair?
 

Bkimura28

When we adopted Chance, we used a choker and always held him right close to our sides when we walked him. Never let him get ahead of us and ALWAYS make him focus on THE WALK. If he hears a dog bark and looks away, take a quick tug, if he pulls you, pull him right close to you and make a tug, and I also recommend working some tricks into walks too. We would periodically make him sit and stay for a couple seconds and then continue on and he eventually learned sit! He's awesome at walks know. He won't even dare to pull me. I also heard the Head Halters were good, but never tried them. I recommend reading some of Cesar Millans books and watch a season or two of the Dog Whisperer, thats were I learned everything. Hope I Helped and Good Luck!

Eventually  learned sit?  My dogs learn sit when they are eight weeks old.  Takes about a minute or less.  To be honest, I'm glad I'm not your dog.  Try going to a class instead of watching TV.  Your dog might be happier, and still obedient.  What silliness, never allowing a dog to glance toward a sound.  I'm sure you think you're doing the right thing, but it really isn't necessary for dogs to be "at attention" the whole walk - that's too much like a forced march.  Sure, your dog will be tired when you get home - from stress, not joie de vivre. 
 

Bkimura28

we used a choker and always held him right close to our sides when we walked him.

OK, despite the thread being really old...  That's not how a choke chain is used.  The dog has to feel the difference  between slack and taut in order for corrections to be "effective".  A choke is not really a good tool for teaching a dog to walk well on a lead.  It's best used on dogs that already walk on a loose lead, so that damage is not caused to the trachea if the lead is pulled tight (by the dog pulling or by the human keeping it taut).

Bkimura28

If he hears a dog bark and looks away, take a quick tug,

May I ask why???

Bkimura28

I recommend reading some of Cesar Millans books and watch a season or two of the Dog Whisperer, thats were I learned everything.

I guessed.  It would have been nice to be wrong.

 OK, y'all can stop bumping this thread now.  As I said earlier, we did not adopt the dog I was talking about in my original post.  We adopted a different dog and are VERY happy with his progress.  I just walked him today for 3.5 miles with no shoe lace, prong collar, or choke chains.  I am satisfied with the methods we have chosen and am not interested in switching.

And sorry, but I find the notion that a 20 minute on-lead walk for a high energy, high drive dog to be sufficient exercise totally laughable.  If I told Kenya's breeder that's the technique I used, she would come take the dog back.  German Shepherds are bred to run ALL DAY LONG.  Combine that with a working-bred GSD whose ancestors' breeding involved selecting for very high drives and play drive and you have a VERY different dog than a Malamute (I am familiar with Malamutes, I care for a professor's Mal when they are away for long periods of time).  But, again, my original posts had nothing to do with Kenya (my energetic/drivey dog).  She gets sufficient exercise in the form of daily jogs, long walks, off lead running/playing, stair climbing, and agility training. She is already trained to walk on a loose leash or walk in heel off lead (various paces, turns, and pivots) and scored 93/100 pts in our match yesterday.

I agree with Glenda, I will use a properly designed and fitted prong over a choke collar ANY day. 

I know this thread is pretty outdated now, but I still think it's beneficial for those of us who allow our dogs some freedom to respond and more or less keep the options balanced.

For the record, I HAVE walked my dogs beside me for far longer than 20 minutes, and guess what?  They weren't the least bit tired.  At least 3 of my gsds ARE from working lines, but all are equally drivey.  And yes, the breed was intended to run all day every day.  If I walked them the way you suggest for HOURS, I doubt I'd make one bit of a dent in their energy levels.  So, I have tried it....didn't like it....didn't like the lack of fatigue, so yep, I've had the experience.  It doesn't work.

^^ My experience is the same.  Being it winter and very cold and icy, my current walk route is 3 miles (takes about an hour).  Kenya has no interest in leaving my side or sniffing.  She walks on my left on a 4ft lead that I double over twice and hold in my hand (so she's basically touching my hip as we walk).  Coke is ready to drop dead by the time we get home, but it's just a warm-up for Kenya!  I let her off lead when we reach our yard and she just sprints around in circles, ready to go and do real exercise. For Kenya, I use on-leash walks mainly for training and just getting her into new environments.  They do very little for her physically and are not at all an appropriate outlet for her drives.

In the interest of guests reading this thread, I encourage anyone using a metal choker to consider a martingale collar.  Or, if you insist on using a choker, at least get one that's fitted right and stays in place!  As far as I know, the only devices that do this are CM's I-collar and Leerburg's choker.  Both are designed to stay slack/loose as long as a correction is not given and stay in place behind the dog's ears. 

spiritdogs

ut it really isn't necessary for dogs to be "at attention" the whole walk

And no body said they are

Chuffy

Bkimura28

If he hears a dog bark and looks away, take a quick tug,

 

May I ask why???

Maybe her dog is dog-agressive and i would agree to do that before the aggression escalates

Liesje

And sorry, but I find the notion that a 20 minute on-lead walk for a high energy, high drive dog to be sufficient exercise totally laughable. 

glenmar

For the record, I HAVE walked my dogs beside me for far longer than 20 minutes, and guess what?  They weren't the least bit tired.

The poster you quoted, espencer did this strict attention as a matter of fact.  She did not say that her dog is DA, but simply that she did what she read in a book and saw on TV.  So you are assuming facts not in evidence.  Turning his head when a dog barks surely isn't a sign of DA in anyones book.

Yes, they were walking without distractions, focusing only on walking next to me.  And yes, my dogs routinely DO wear backpacs and carry their own water when we walk.  But, now you are adding to the requirement.  You SAID 20 minute session, and now you are adding to the requirements.

You have your own share of laughing?  What on earth are you laughing about?  Two of us have gsds and TWO of us have said that your method flat out doesn't work with our high drive dogs.  What is so funny about that?

OK, fine, 40 mins....yep, still funny to me!  As I said, we walk for an hour straight, the requirements you mention (yes I have a backpack, yes we have used it) and still...it is not real physical exercise for a working-bred dog.  It's pretty much a let-down for her to walk for an hour and then have to go inside and be expected to settle down.  Attention and focus are never an issue with this German Shepherd, that's a given.

I will also say that I am friends with the people who did adopt the dog in my OP.  They are using a Gentle Leader or flat collar and he is walked for THREE hours a day and still has energy to burn.  Their home is a MUCH better match for him than mine would have been.  He is their only pet, the husband is home with him all day, and they devote hours each day to training him and exercising him.  I was very worried about him when we decided not to adopt him because he was so rambunctious, barked nonstop, and had separation anxiety, but his new home is perfect for him.  He's probably going to do agility and hopefully rally if I can get my friend to join our group.

No Liesje, I think we're supposed to do TWO twenty minute sessions, not ONE 40 minute session.  But, ok, here's what I've done.  Park at the Civic Center, take a brisk walk to the school yard, play for 45 minutes to an hour, then walk again, back to the car.  And, then get home and have a dog still brimming with energy.  Ha ha.  Somehow, I don't find that laugh worthy.  It doesn't work for a high drive dog like a gsd.  And, as a matter of fact, it never worked for the cockers either.

ETA:  forgot to mention that the walk takes 30 minutes.  Each way.

And what do you put in your back packs? Air? Alaskans are bred to pull heavy weights for long periods of time (along with a high drive) talking about working dogs!!!! Alaskan Malamutes have the same amount of energy and exercise requirements that a GSD, i have also done it with golden retrievers known for being one of the most high energy breeds

I think both of you need to put more weight on their back packs, your friend spending 3 hours and having his dog still with energy is clearly a sign of doing something wrong, do they have a back pack?

But if you like to spend 2 hours or more trying to release your dog's energy its clearly your choice, i only need 40 minutes, giving me time to do more things (like laughing for example )

My GSDs aren't over the top drivey, but I can't imagine them being pooped all day after a either a 40 minute leash walk, or two 20 minute leash walks, no matter how you do it. We spent about an hour with them at the park today chucking tennis balls, and THAT's exercise! As far as I'm concerned, leash walks are for training only, as exercise they just don't cut it.

espencer

And what do you put in your back packs? Air? Alaskans are bred to pull heavy weights for long periods of time (along with a high drive) talking about working dogs!!!! Alaskan Malamutes have the same amount of energy and exercise requirements that a GSD, i have also done it with golden retrievers known for being one of the most high energy breeds

I think both of you need to put more weight on their back packs, your friend spending 3 hours and having his dog still with energy is clearly a sign of doing something wrong, do they have a back pack?

But if you like to spend 2 hours or more trying to release your dog's energy its clearly your choice, i only need 40 minutes, giving me time to do more things (like laughing for example )

espencer, exercise is not the same as drive.  It doesn't work that way. It's not only about energy level.

Yawnnnnn.  Whatever. 

 I enjoy getting out in the fresh air....I enjoy walking in the woods and I enjoy watching my dogs romp.  I laugh out loud watching them rather often....just at the sheer joy they get from running and playing.  And by golly, when we come back from an hour romping in the woods, they are ready for some serious down time.  And, agreed, leash walks are for training purposes, or refreshers, not for real exercise.  I don't care how much weight you put in a pack.....first the backpack was added as a qualifier to the 20 minute walk, then more weight...what next?  Through snow five feet deep, with a 40 lb backpack?  The INITIAL statement was 2 20 minute walks.  Period.  No qualifiers, yet when we say it doesn't work, we don't know what we're doing??  Again, whatever.

Tell ya what.  YOU come to NW Michigan and try that 20 minute walk trick with one of my crew and then tell me how well it works.  It isn't that I don't know what I'm doing, it's that YOU don't know my dogs.  Every single dog in the world isn't cut from the same cookie cutter.....and ONE method doesn't do it all for all of them.  Regardless of what any so called "expert" says. 

espencer

Chuffy

Bkimura28

If he hears a dog bark and looks away, take a quick tug,

 

May I ask why???

 

Maybe her dog is dog-agressive and i would agree to do that before the aggression escalates

Maybe... that wouldn't be how I would handle a dog who was aggressive or reactive, but I think if this dog was the person would probably have stated it in their post.  It just sounds like the dog is not allowed to pay attention to anything else other than "The Walk".  Apparently (and I don't agree with this) it's more tiring for the dog that way. 

ETA, Also, I am wondering, if a couple of walks on-lead aren't enough and you have to add a backpack.... is that a problem with dogs who have hip/elbow dysplasia and/or arthritis?  How many hours of exercise do you reckon that backpack is worth I wonder?  Actually don't answer that as its OT, I was just wondering....