Owners of submissive dogs...

spiritdogs

Does it ever bother you that your dog is submissive?

Hmm, that's a good question. I would have to say it doesn't bother me, know. If you mean submissive as an overall personality trait, then no, it doesn't bother me at all. Submissiveness is not something I would select for, per se, in my type of dog, but it doesn't bother me to live with a dog that is submissive, and within any breed this is one trait you'll find in most dogs. However it depends on the breed whether or not it would be considered desirable. For me, usually a submissive Mini Schnauzer would be considered "atypical", and of course I am attracted to the Mini because of the personality it is known to have. But then again, I'm not sure submissive is really the goal of "any" breed, is it? There's a huge difference between a dog that really wants to work for you, and a submissive dog.

Hmm.......if I had a submissive dog (and I do!), I would be inclined to try to implement some confidence-building activities into the dog's life, as a lot of submission can be due to a lack of confidence. But I wouldn't really care to have the dog "stick up" for itself any more, usually submissive dogs lead a pretty easygoing life in terms of other dogs and people, they tend to be the dogs that cause the least number of problems in terms of social interaction, because they are happy to be walked all over and will give anybody the benefit of the doubt.

If you mean submission from fear, of course it bothers me, as I place emotions very much in the forefront of my life when dealing with animals. I do my best to relieve anxiety, and to relieve stress, and fear is overtly stressful on an animal, in so many ways. So I would be concerned if there was a fear component to it.

Often even if there is not a fear component, there is a slight anxiety component to submissive interaction, even if it is simply because the dog isn't quite sure how it should act, and that can be modified in a lot of dogs to make the dog's life a little bit easier for the dog itself.

FourIsCompany

When in the dog world, both are just descriptions of the dog's nature and temperament.  

*G*

Not in my world. I don't think there is such a thing as a "dominant" nature or temperament.

k.m.:"Not in my world. I don't think there is such a thing as a "dominant" nature or temperament."

an antonym for the word, dominant is submissive.

so going with what you stated, would you also say that there is no such thing as "submissive" nature or temperment as well?

how about "assertive" or "calming"?

Cassidys Mom

she knows exactly how to diffuse a potentially tense situation.

Kim_MacMillan

I don't think there is such a thing as a "dominant" nature or temperament.

Ok.  So, submissive can be a personality trait, but dominant can't be?

I think the term "dominant dog" or "submissive dog" really means a dog displaying dominant behaviors or submissive behaviors, so that's how I was using the term.

Kim_MacMillan

Not in my world. I don't think there is such a thing as a "dominant" nature or temperament.

What world is that.  Dominant and submissive are part of every social structure.  That is the nature of a group you have your leaders and followers.

I also think that some term are getting confused.  I feel that dominant is the opposite of submissive not aggressive.  Fearful is the opposite of confident.  Outgoing is the opposite of shy/reserved.

In fact you can have a dominant dog that is confident in most situations but could be fearful of certain things and is also reserved towards others.

These things ebb and flow also.  I have seen dominant dogs that when placed in a situation with a more dominant dog become submissive to that dog but dominant to others in the group.

These terms are just descriptions, it is not physics.

I am pretty satisfied with the way things are here at my house.......the Huskies are pretty laid back , but stand up when necessary.........well, the Shepherds are just that....Shepherds....lol......the one thing that puzzles me though....when all this rough play is going on, all dogs will take a tumble at one point or another.....except for Rumour....maybe .....because he weighs the most....lol

Liesje, I feel for ya.....it must be tough to be dealing with a really fearful dog, I have been lucky, even with rescues I haven't seen a really fearful dog......

I didn't say dominance as a social interaction does not occur, I said there was no such thing as a "dominant" dog. There's a big difference between the two. ;-) My world also doesn't involve leaders or followers as a static hierarchy.That's not to say that some sort of social relationship doesn't exist between the DOGS themselves, but I don't concern myself with being 'leader' or 'alpha' or 'head honcho' or whatever you want to call it. Heck, my world doesn't worry two hoots ABOUT hierarchy. But my dogs and I get along marvelously. Dominance occurs as a social interaction, not a personality trait.

As for submission being the antonym of dominance, I believe that's only in context of human construction. I can't find "dominant" as an anytonym in any dictionary. The terms to describe a submissive personality for me (and according to the dictionary) are the following: compliant, passive, resigned, nonresistant. Basically it's a dog that is willing to do just about whatever you wish, with no real thoughts of its own to the contrary. They also tend to be quite sensitive animals from my experience.

 The antonyms for submission are: rebellious, disobedient, resistant.

The term "domineer" can also occur as an antonym for submission, but that's not at all even close to what people here define dominance as. ;-)

 That's okay, though, I don't mind living in a world that happens to be different from the majority. My dogs love my world here too. *G*

It's often the "creaking with anxiety" dogs, or the undersocialized, rude dogs who exhibit stiff, tense body posture behaviors with other dogs, the sort of posture most of us think of as "dominant".  People very often mis-interpret "calming signals" as "submissive" behaviors. In actual fact many of the calmest, most confident dogs use lots of calming signals to try to calm down the hordes of anxious, fearful, or upset dogs and humans around them.

Dominance and submissive should not be used to describe a particular dog-- they should only be used to describe situations. Who gets the bone? the dominant dog. Varies by situation and who is present and what kind of resource is in dispute.

mudpuppy

Dominance and submissive should not be used to describe a particular dog-- they should only be used to describe situations.

It's kinda scary how much I agree with you lately! LOL

Having said that, I think the OP should define what they mean by a "submissive dog" lest the thread get all twisted up in definitions...  Oops! Too late!

mudpuppy

Dominance and submissive should not be used to describe a particular dog-- they should only be used to describe situations.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to say, in terms of dominance, although I do think there is such a thing as the personality type I have described.

Perhaps "submissive" isn't the right word to describe it, though, and I'm all for changing it if somebody has a different personality characteristic that fits! I don't feel it's the right word but have yet to find one that really suits well.

Kim_MacMillan

Often even if there is not a fear component, there is a slight anxiety component to submissive interaction, even if it is simply because the dog isn't quite sure how it should act...

I don't agree. While it CAN have an anxiety component, just like it CAN have a fear component, I don't believe that's necessarily always true. Just using Dena as an example, I think she's truly comfortable being submissive to other dogs in social settings. Because she's had lots of offleash contact with strange dogs for a long time, she knows how to act, and that gives her a certain confidence in those situations. She does not submit to her half brother, but then they have a relationship as members of the same pack.

 And yes Carla, she is a VERY neat dog!

snownose

Liesje, I feel for ya.....it must be tough to be dealing with a really fearful dog, I have been lucky, even with rescues I haven't seen a really fearful dog......

It's not that she's "really" fearful, I would say "discerning" (my trainer's word for her), but that the slight fears she does have really have no basis.  She was never abused or neglected.  She was born with and raised by two people who have devoted their entire lives to dogs and German Shepherds (wife = trainer & exhibitor, husband = MSU veterinarian).  She has received as much positive training, mental and physical stimulation, and socialization as any dog can get.  With a shelter dog that has been beaten by a man and fears men, it is easier to work with (for me) b/c I know exactly why the dog behaves the way it does.  It's hard to develop a program for Kenya when we can't figure out what's going on in her head.

people are that way, too. Some want to be the center of attention at all times, some want to be in charge of every situation, and others are perfectly happy to not be in charge or be the center of attention,  in fact, would probably be horriifed to find themselves in such a role. And some are so deferential that they let themselves be pushed around and used. What word describes that personality type- it would be better than "submissive" to describe dogs with that kind of personality.  

milksop?