Oh my god!! The first decent walk since I started leash training!!

Please b careful.  Those thimgs can do awful damage.  Mind you, so can any tool if used incorrectly.The check chain is not a self-correcting device (like a prong or gentle leader), you need to be pro active.  It is used to punish a dog: slack lead - jerk - slack lead.  If the lead is not slack, the "jerk" part does nothing.    It feels no different when the dog "misbehaves" to any other time.  Plus, you need to be very timely and judge JUST how hard to pop.  Too little will be ineffective and will need to be repeated.  It can result in the dog becoming "immune" and you end up nagging the dog.  Too much and you can hurt the dog.... and still not get the message across if your timing is right.  Also, it is not designed to be used on dogs that can't walk on a loose lead.  The name is a misnomer, because, used correctly, it should never choke the dog.

If you are having no joy with the gentle leader, try a no pull harness or a prong collar.  The prong is a self correcting device.  It LOOKS horrible but it applies pressure differently and is actually easier on the dog and usually more effective.  Make sure its fitted right though.

Totally agree.  The Easy Walk harness is highly recommended.....it's basically a harness with the lead ring on the chest.....makes pulling really tough.

I've used a prong on one of my boys, but it was a short term need and you have to have them properly fitted, be shown how to use them and be ultra careful with those as well.  Really regular walks will give the dog the chance to practice GOOD leash manners, so be sure she's getting a couple walks each day.

I can vouch for the no pull harness. I have one for both my aussie and Husky. It really makes for nice walks and now they don't pull no matter what collar they have on. 

oranges81

I had my first decent walk with no pulling, biting at the leash, or fight in general with Maze since I started leash training her a year ago

Congratulations on your success! That feels great when they finally get it, doesn't it? I know what you mean about the gentle leader. It's great, but Jaia has a pretty strong neck and when I first used it, he just pulled, anyway. He knows to turn around and pull backwards! That's what we get for having smart dogs! LOL

I also like a no-pull harness with the hook in front. There's very little chance of harming the dog. I'm concerned about the choke chain, too, even though I know how to use it, if they decide to pull because of a rabbit or something, it can be bad news. I wish you and Maze (LOVE that name!) all the luck learning to walk together pleasantly all the time!

Please do be careful and please also understand that dogs can become very "collar savvy", meaning they understand that the impetus to not pull comes from the equipment being used on them, not any internal desire to stay with you and not pull. Switch to a less painful collar, the dog will still pull. I trained my first two dogs on a choker and sure enough, they learned very quickly to not pull with the choker on, but all they learned was to not pull when the choker was on, period. While that sounds like the goal was attained, I learned later that the goal for loose leash walking isn't necessarily to "not pull", but rather to "enjoy staying with and near to the handler".  The latter goal translates to all kinds of different contexts included off-leash work and recalls. The "don't pull when I have this painful collar on" goal is much more limited. And that pretty much goes for all leash training devices as well, even the ones that don't use pain. You can use them all to manage the situation temporarily, but the goal should always be to work on "enjoy staying with and near the handler" so a buckle collar or comfort harness can be transitioned in to as quickly as possible.

My collar savvy dogs knew exactly where the source of the pain they were experiencing was located and it was entirely related to a leash attached to them and my presence at the end of it.  Remove one of those factors and their obedience totally fell apart. They knew I had no way to enforce it and I had never given them a good reason to want to be obedient outside of just avoiding pain. I switched one of those dogs (the other died an early and preventable death due to poor recall) to a flat collar in later years because choker collars can and do cause serious tracheal damage if used for too long or incorrectly (and letting a dog choke himself on the end of the leash is not a correct use of this kind of collar--they were intended to issue quick jerk-and-release corrections, not sustained pressure). His leash walking completely fell apart and he had to be retrained, which we're still working on.

I agree with the others. Even when used properly choke chains come with a risk of injury. Think of your statement: "I pull, I can't breathe to well".

Say you were walking a child (yes, children are smaller, but think of it in terms of the effects, not the size of the dog!) up the sidewalk in place of your dog. Would you prefer this sentiment at that point? "If my 3-year old pulls ahead of me, she can't breathe too well". Or would perhaps holding on to her hand, or even getting a toddler connection that connects her to your waist be a little more comfortable and less risky? Even minor pressure against the trachea and esphogus, piled up over time, can cause irreparable damage. And one quick lunge at any point can be instant severe damage. Your dog may never be injured of course, not all dogs are, but it has the same probability of being injured.

I too would vouch for a no-pull harness for a simple pulling case. Some good ones are the Easy Walk, Sensation, Halti harness, and I've heard the new DreamWalker is supposed to be good although I haven't seen it live in action.

houndlove

My collar savvy dogs knew exactly where the source of the pain they were experiencing was located and it was entirely related to a leash attached to them and my presence at the end of it. 

Oh yes!  Sasha is not a huge puller, but if she senses a smell that absolutely MUST be sniffed she will pull on a flat collar.  On a prong, she won't. I don't use the prong with her (unless her other collar is momentarily missing) because it doesn't teach her anything, and her pulling is an occasional annoyance.  She isn't going to drag me down the street on a flat collar.   

I understand your concerns about the chain collar and I didn't want to use it. But sadly enough Maze would pull no matter what I put on her. I used to a use a harness for her but she got a bad skin iritation(sp?) from it. Within the next couple weeks I'm hoping to wean off the chain and back on to her flat collar. My final goal is to having her walking with her flat collar and no pulling.

I understand your frustration and commend you for working at it, not just saying "oh I have a bad dog!" like a lot of people would.  However, I prefer to teach loose leash walking that's not dependent on ANY collar (flats included).  Dogs are quite contextual and often with collars, it's no different.  My uncle's dog was a puller, but she does beautifully on a choke collar.  However, he accidentally trained her that the choke collar means no pulling and a flat collar means pulling.  In my experience, it takes just as long (if not longer) to re-train and transition between collars than just start with what you want and work at shaping the behavior from the very beginning. 

I took her out earlier with her flat collar and found she walks just the same as will the chain collar, so I think I'll stop using the chain for a bit and see how that works. I know Maze isn't a bad dog (unless she eats my shoes again..) She's just to smart for her own good and she's a hyper dog(being part black lab, I understand that) 

Kim_MacMillan

I agree with the others. Even when used properly choke chains come with a risk of injury. Think of your statement: "I pull, I can't breathe to well".

Granted I didn't use the correct words in that statement. I've used choke chains on previous dogs so I'm familiar with the usage. Usually after a month I can retire it and move on to a flat collar.

Maze is getting better at watching me cuz I've started adding more random commands during walks.

And yes she does get a decent amount of walks a day. 3 1hour walks and a few mini walks, usually about 20 to 30 minutes each. So lots of practice =) 

Bugsy has been a puller for all his life - he CAN walk nicely and does most of the time now but somedays he's in his own world and wants to trot not walk anyway. I have worked with him since day 1 and have tried every technique and darn near every tool to make it his norm.

We used the Gentle Leader harness and let me tell you a determined dog will still pull AND the leash is in mouth range so if they want to go in a different direction they can grab the leash.  I have also used the sporn halter and it does lift the front legs up if they pull but, no problemo I'll just pull with only my back legs  
Both of those can work and are nice but on his very short coat did irritate his skin. 

To me with a strong puller ( mine's a beast) a prong is the safest.  Mine has popped the buckle on a flat collar and the flat collar has a greater likelihood to choke him) 

We do walk with a flat collar now, loose leash 98% of the time, but I always have the prong on him just in case I need to switch.  Some may say this isn't correct to do but it works and I have a safety net for my very large stronger than me dog JMHO 

The only thing that really finally works, aside from any device, is training.  My suggestion would be to learn to clicker train the "let's go" or "heel".  It has worked nicely on every dog I have used it with.  You just need to learn to do it correctly.  Shirley Chong has a video that shows the technique pretty well.  You start off leash, so no temptation to drag the dog around, which is what makes most of them develop "oppositional reflex" in the first place.  Then, you generalize the behavior, add distractions, add the leash, get fluency...http://ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/leash.html 

kpwlee

To me with a strong puller ( mine's a beast) a prong is the safest.  Mine has popped the buckle on a flat collar and the flat collar has a greater likelihood to choke him) 

 I agree. I use a prong with Hektor (he is getting bigger every day) whenever we are out around other dogs or lots of people. He walks just fine on a flat collar, I use the prong because if and when he does pull he wins.

  We also had a pit bull who's flat collar popped in the pet store the other day. I was sitting down on a very low stool at the time, with Hektor seated next to me. In a matter of seconds I had a rather rude PitBull in my lap. A prong on this guy would have been nice.

 I can also recomend the sporn for pulling, but one thing I noticed on the ones that have the plastic fastners (most all of them do) is that they can come apart under pressure. Gunnar was walking on a sporn and a rabbit ran out, he hit the end and the collar portion of the harness popped open.