Dispelling the Myths About Clicker Training

Sometimes I bribe, sometimes I don't.  I bribe for formal heel and attention (hold the treat so she *knows* I have it and she wants to get it).  I don't bribe when I clicker train b/c I only clicker train to shape.  I wait for the dog to offer a behavior, click it, and she gets a treat.  I'm not dangling it in front of her and then retracting it if she doesn't do what I want, I'm simply marking and naming a behavior she would do regardless of the treat.  For example, when she gets excited she spins in circles.  It's got nothing to do with the presence of a treat.  I want to teach her "spin!" so next time I see her do it on her own, I'm going to click it.  When she knows I'm clicking for the spinning, then I'm going to call it "spin"!  Spinning is natural for her, a formal heel with eye contact is not, so I've got to bribe the latter and I'll admit it.

FourIsCompany

I want to say LOL, but I'm not really laughing...   But don't we all bribe our dogs? I know I do. I bribe them with praise, food, butt scratches, freedom, getting to do what they want to do. I know clicking is marking a behavior, but if there was no bribery, you couldn't charge the clicker in the first place, could you?

Am I confused? (Don't answer that!)  

Of course I'll answer that! What fun would it be otherwise?

We actually don't all bribe our dogs. A bribe is not the same thing as a reward.

A bribe is more of an "if you do this, THEN I'll give you this", usually used when, say, children refuse to do something you ask of them. So, a child refuses to do the laundry. A parent then says "Come on, if you do, I'll take you to get ice cream!". It's sort of an underhanded way to get what you want. Luring, in a way, could be thought of as bribing, as the animal is always aware of the possible reward right in front of its nose. The animal/person is aware of it long before the behaviour takes place. Think of the dog that refuses to sit. "Sit, sit, SIT! (person brings out a cookie and puts it in front of the dog's nose) Sit!" Dog sits. That is bribery.

A reward, on the other hand, always comes after. It is given in return for a job well done, without having to coerce, or nag, or repeat yourself. It's like a pat on the back, or a thrown toy, after the behaviour you do something good.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for bribery with dogs. If a dog is, say, scared of an object/person and you HAVE to walk past it, luring the dog with a treat in hand is a good option to use (although not the only option). But there is a difference between a bribe and a reward, although it can be subtle in some cases.

FourIsCompany

Chuffy

Another myth (this is a popular one!)

Clicker trainers bribe their dogs!

ARGH that anoys me so much!

 

I want to say LOL, but I'm not really laughing...   But don't we all bribe our dogs? I know I do. I bribe them with praise, food, butt scratches, freedom, getting to do what they want to do. I know clicking is marking a behavior, but if there was no bribery, you couldn't charge the clicker in the first place, could you?

Am I confused? (Don't answer that!)  

OK, maybe I should clarify. Its not the myth itsel that bugs me, its the way some people are so derogatory/condescending about it as if we don't ALL bribe our dogs at some point... OK so bribery is not necesarily the BEST way to teach or maintain a behaviour, but it can be a simple way to comunicate with the dog what is required. Clicker trainers usualy love freeshaping, so when teaching a new bhvr many are LESS likely to bribe than "non clicker people".

I don't want this to degenerate into a thread about bribery, do we need another new thread? (there are so many great threads up at the moment ! )

Chuffy

I don't want this to degenerate into a thread about bribery, do we need another new thread?

I don't think a new thread is necessary. I am clear on the difference between a bribe and a reward. Thank you all. Carry on.  

dgriego

Can it be someone who uses the clicker for some things and not others?

Yes. It is easier to train longer stays without the clicker. You treat or reward through the stay, getting the duration you want. Then, you can extend the time between rewards, working down to just a reward at the end of the stay, then eventually fade the reward. If you worked on this twice a day, you could wind up with a 3 minute or longer stay in a short amount of time. Then, you could start adding distractions and go through the process, though it may go a little faster once the dog understands. Then, out of sight stays. The whole thing might take a few weeks to a month and once you've established a 3 minute out-of-sight stay and it could very well be the first step toward CGC.

Once I started using the clicker, I was amazed at how fast he learns. I don't think it was a whole month before he figured out how to cue me for more training.