Teenie went to the holistic vet

Aw, Jennie, I'll bet your stress level is through the roof. [] I hope, hope, hope this helps.

Yes, we're going through LOTS of Rescue Remedy[] Stupid me left, this morning, without it, to drive an hour on the highway and 15 minutes in a strange city that I HATE. I smelled like stress, to my own nose. It's much better, now that I feel like I have some degree of control.

Oh I am sorry you are going through this Jennie, I didn't realize that Teenie was being aggressive. I also didn't know that she was fighting with Emma. What a bummer. Hopefully this new trainer will be able to help you. I know I would be so stressed out if I have to intercept fights between the dogs.

Good Luck

Yeah, Teenie's been attacking Emma, with no discernable reason, forever. It had been very infrequent, and controllable. Even when there was blood, I was able to call Emma from the fight, and safely seperate them. Now, it's nasty. I have to physically get between them, and end up getting hurt in the process. I've been looking for a behaviorist, for a while. Still haven't found one, but this guy seems qualified enough, for me[]

Aww. . . oor little girls.  I hope this helps too. 

Gee, I'm sorry this is happening Jennie; I really hope this helps. Keep us updated on the girls.

About separating the fights....you could try this.  Take a heavy blanket, such as a comforter and drop it over them.  It will usually startle them enough and make it hard enough for them to move that they will break up for just a second for you to grab them.  And, if they don't break up, you can pick one of them up in the blanket and your hands won't get bitten.

I've said it before here, but it bears repeating.  Dogs that draw blood mean business and should be separated immediately.  Fighting becomes self-rewarding, and will escalate if you don't take action, which jennie is now doing, thankfully.  But, despite claims to the contrary, there will always be some dogs who simply cannot live together (in the wild, one would be banished from the pack).  If the protocols you try don't work, you may have to think about permanently separating them, or rehoming one of the dogs.  Good DVD by Trish King "Multiple Dogs" might give you some insight.  Patricia McConnell has done some work with this, too, in "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi Dog Household" - inexpensive little booklet.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

I've said it before here, but it bears repeating.  Dogs that draw blood mean business and should be separated immediately.  Fighting becomes self-rewarding, and will escalate if you don't take action, which jennie is now doing, thankfully.  But, despite claims to the contrary, there will always be some dogs who simply cannot live together (in the wild, one would be banished from the pack).  If the protocols you try don't work, you may have to think about permanently separating them, or rehoming one of the dogs.  Good DVD by Trish King "Multiple Dogs" might give you some insight.  Patricia McConnell has done some work with this, too, in "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi Dog Household" - inexpensive little booklet.

I agree.  Sometimes its really hard though.  At my mentor's all of our dogs get along, except two.  They HATE each other and can never be near each other.  I would try what your hollistic vet says first, and then see how it goes.  I know if they were my dogs, it would be extremely hard for me to give up on them.  However, if it was best for them, I might be able to do it.  But, I would try everything I could first.

Jennie - had things been calm for awhile and just heated up again between the two?  I hadn't read anything recently that you were having problems, but it sounds like it's been a rough time.  Sadly, it's been the case for us too.  I was feeling so proud that Sassy & Buffy hadn't had a fight for over a year.   Then this weekend they got into it again, and we have absolutely no idea why.  Guesses are that I'd just put a new bag of dog food in the bin in the garage and Sassy was feeling territorial, but it's just a guess.  Both dogs are back to acting tense.  Buffy gets nervous because of Sassy's aggression and Sassy seems to be all the more enticed by Buffy's fear.  We've always kept them separated unless we're with them, but I'm back to feeling stressed even if they're together and we're with them.  I'd love to hear what your behaviorist recommends for you.  When I went to vet yesterday with Sassy, she said "well, you may still need to consider rehoming one of them".  Buffy's 11, so not in a million years would I consider it.  Sassy's been with us 4 yrs, and altho I considered it early on, I can't imagine it now.  Sassy's got some skin infections again, so the vet and I are hoping that maybe she's not feeling well and that caused it.  Guess we'll see soon.

Good DVD by Trish King "Multiple Dogs" might give you some insight. Patricia McConnell has done some work with this, too, in "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi Dog Household" - inexpensive little booklet.

Thanks, Anne, I'll get those.

I'm REALLY hoping that this isn't a case where the dogs will end up not being able to live together. The fighting did escelate, and I should have seperated them earlier.

For the time being, they are being crated and rotated. This is NOT a permanent solution, for me. If all else fails, Teenie will be rehomed.

Cathy, it's been going on all along. There've been good times and bad times. This week was VERY stressful in my house, for non-dog reasons, and Teenie was sick all week, vomiting and having diahrrea. I'm sure the stress levels got to her. She attacked Emma three times, all three resulting in injuries all around...

Jennie- I am soooo sorry to hear about all that you have been going through.  It can be so difficult sometimes to deal with this type of situation. It is wonderful that you are trying so many options to help the situation.  No advice here...just lots of hugs and good wishes!
shelly
  

Jennie, I'm sorry that your having this problem. It must be nerve-racking and heart-wrenching.
 
In one of my nutrition books, there is reference to research on nutrition as it relates to neurotransmitters. They used the example of high meat diets resulting in lower levels of serotonin, which can make some animals more aggressive. Their reasoning was that, while meat contains relatively high levels of tryptohan, competition between the amino acids tyrosine, leucine, and tryptophan result in tryptophan being short changed and not reaching appreciable levels in the brain.
 
Just don't know if this is applicable or not. I can give you more info if you want it.
 
Good luck with the training and hopefully it won't come down to teh worst case scenario.

Thanks, guys.

Rene, you reminded me of something.... I'm readying The Dog That Loved Too Much. Dodman uses a lowered protein, and seratonin producing drugs, in a LOT of his cases. I'm glad you reminded me. We do NOT do high protein, around here. They get 20-30% meat. The rest is veggies. I did want to ask about seratonin, though, and if it might benefit her to give her a supplemental source of seratonin (I wouldn't want to use Prozac, unless I had to, but I can GET seratonin, at the health food store!).