Dog bit toddler.

"I've noticed Cowboy obviously uncomfortable with Noah before, and I've seen times where I expected him to be growling, but he never made a peep, and I knew that was scary, but even when I've said this to my sister, she's always said she trusts Cowboy 100%. "

 Poor dog. I think this says it all- the disciplinary action (that's not what I would call a bite) was in part the fault of whoever extinguished this dog's warning system, and mostly the fault of the owner for not picking up on this, and stopping it before it happens. And foolishly "trusting 100%". I hope they can find the dog a good home. I would think the dog could quite easily be managed in his current home, but not if the owners don't want to even try.

It doesn't seem like they're really interested in working with him long term, but I'm not positive, so let's assume for a minute that they DO want to work on it, what are your suggestions? I feel so frustrated and helpless here. I don't know what to tell her. I don't even know what to think myself. Tell me what they should do to manage and work with him, and I will suggest it.

When we were little my mom raised and showed St. Bernards.  This meant a *** in heat.  She wasn't always in the best of moods (the dog or my mom!).  We learned at a very early age how to respect and treat a dog.  This meant NO hugging the dogs head, no running up to the dog, we spoke to the dog before approaching her, no approaching her food, etc.  WE, the children, learned.  The dog was already basically trained, but no dog likes to be tortured by children.  And in their eyes some normal toddler behavior is torturous.  And to be honest, I am very glad we did learn this way.  I have learned an amazing amount about animal behavior vs. people I know who were not raised this way.  But your sister has to really commit to this - no thinking "oh, I'm really busy so just this one time", etc.  It is about really teaching the toddler how to control himself and NEVER leaving him unsupervised with the dog (or any dog).  If she is not willing to totally commit to this, then in my opinion, the dog is better off rehomed.

Just because some dogs are super tolerant, that really shouldn't be considered normal dog behavior and I think that is where some people make their mistake. 

 I am sure others will have more advice on the particulars, but really it sounds more like the child really needs to learn boundries when dealing with animals.

 Sasha has never been a growler.  She communicates through body language, until she feels at the snapping point.  If you know dog body language, she isn't subtle, but many people don't.

kelliope

but really it sounds more like the child really needs to learn boundries when dealing with animals.

I could not agree more. The issue is explaining this to his parents without offending them terribly or getting into an argument. When he's at my house I literally have to follow him around to make sure he's not left alone with any animals, especially Cherokee, because while I do not believe she would bite him under normal circumstances, and she's really good about getting up and leaving the room when he bothers her, I'm not willing to bet his face on that. She growls at him occasionally, and while that sends everyone else into spaz mode, I'm thankful for that growl, and usually get into an argument with someone over scolding her or not for growling. On the bright side, I don't think I'll ever have that problem again. Sucks that people can't realize that maybe, just maybe I have some idea what I'm talking about, without something like this happening.

Colleen and I were talking about how cats bite Noah every once in a while, and it's no big deal, wash it, tell Noah why the cat bit him, and move on. But with a large dog, it's just not that simple. I wish it were. Wish we didn't have to be worried about the bite being worse if he ever does it again.

I still think a thorough exam and bloodwork are warranted, but my whole family keeps acting like I'm totally ridiculous for suggesting it might be a medical issue. I just think it's worth making sure it's NOT a medical issue, not that I think it necessarily is. This is just so frustrating.

chelsea_b

I'm not willing to bet his face on that.

 This is the real issue here.  If you can't talk openly with your sister about this then it does sound like finding the dog a new home is better for the dog.  I would consider talking with your sister anyway though about your nephew.  Getting bit occasionally by anything is a real sign there is a problem.  If the cats bite him (and I have seen some NASTY infections from cat bites - they are nothing to sneeze at!) then it really sounds like it is in the child's best interest to learn some control around animals.  Otherwise, he may end up being seriously bitten by a dog or cat at someone else's house anyway.

 If it were me I'd say something like "I really think we need to look into teaching Noah some animal behavior coping techniques and how to act around animals."  If she says he is OK around trustworthy dogs, etc., I'd say exactly your quote - "Are you willing to bet his face on that?"  Might sound a bit harsh, but it is better than visiting him in the hospital.

 Wishing you and your family much luck with this issue!  You sound like a wonderful auntie!

kelliope

chelsea_b

I'm not willing to bet his face on that.

 This is the real issue here.  If you can't talk openly with your sister about this then it does sound like finding the dog a new home is better for the dog.  I would consider talking with your sister anyway though about your nephew.  Getting bit occasionally by anything is a real sign there is a problem.  If the cats bite him (and I have seen some NASTY infections from cat bites - they are nothing to sneeze at!) then it really sounds like it is in the child's best interest to learn some control around animals.  Otherwise, he may end up being seriously bitten by a dog or cat at someone else's house anyway.

 If it were me I'd say something like "I really think we need to look into teaching Noah some animal behavior coping techniques and how to act around animals."  If she says he is OK around trustworthy dogs, etc., I'd say exactly your quote - "Are you willing to bet his face on that?"  Might sound a bit harsh, but it is better than visiting him in the hospital.

 Wishing you and your family much luck with this issue!  You sound like a wonderful auntie!

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Chelsea, if your dogs growl at Noah,  too, then I think that he does need to learn to behave around dogs.  That, of course, does not absolve the parent from supervising him (and the dog) whenever they're together.  Some parents just don't want that much work. 

The first thing I would suggest is some classes for Cowboy.  He needs a good solid "leave it" and "come", so that he can be ordered away from Noah's vicinity at will.  Also, it would not hurt to do some preventive training using Jean Donaldson's "Mine!" protocol to prevent or curb any tendencies toward resource guarding, which is a common reason dogs bite kids.  Next, I would provide a safe place where the dog can escape from the child, and I would NOT ever scold the dog for growling - you may want to find out if they did this.  If so, mudpuppy's caveat about eliminating the dog's early warning system is valid.  Last, but not least, the little hellion should not be allowed to harass any dog ever at all no way no how - period. 

This is going to sound harsh, and maybe I have that view because there are no kids in my house.....with that being said, I have seen kids pull, poke and prod animals, trying to lay on top of them....and usually just being a menace all the way around.....folks should really think about what type of animal they get before having children....even the best behaved dog has it's limit.

Yes, it's great to have educated people who plan ahead and know everything about dog training and child rearing, but in this situation I don't think the "coulda shoulda wouldas" are very helpful. Keeping in mind that we can't change the past, looking to the future would probably be the best bet?

Just my opinion, but I see a lot of times people jumping down someone else's throat when the dog misbehaves, particularly toward a child. Now in general people do not want their dogs to bite, particularly not to bite children, right? So if they knew that what they had been doing was contributing to biting behavior they'd most likely change, right? So getting angry at said people (or at friends/relatives/observers of said people) for "not doing it right in the first place" and for "causing it" might not be the best way to educate them and prevent future incidents? 

Cita

Yes, it's great to have educated people who plan ahead and know everything about dog training and child rearing, but in this situation I don't think the "coulda shoulda wouldas" are very helpful. Keeping in mind that we can't change the past, looking to the future would probably be the best bet?

Just my opinion, but I see a lot of times people jumping down someone else's throat when the dog misbehaves, particularly toward a child. Now in general people do not want their dogs to bite, particularly not to bite children, right? So if they knew that what they had been doing was contributing to biting behavior they'd most likely change, right? So getting angry at said people (or at friends/relatives/observers of said people) for "not doing it right in the first place" and for "causing it" might not be the best way to educate them and prevent future incidents? 

I am not angry at the OP.....what the?????

There is enough problem solving rolling in, let me be the voice of "Think ahead"....eh.....

well think ahead is great...but Chelsea isn't the one ultimately making decisions in this situation, or others that may follow in the household this occured in, so support and ideas are what IMO, can be offered.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that she is more than capable of counselling her sis in future as far as more animals/pets, if her counsel is sought...she's smart like that...

I really appreciate everyone's help, and all the opinions..but I think calling my 2 year old nephew a "hellion" and such is going just a tad too far. Could and should this bite have been prevented? Yes, absolutely. Are his parents at fault? Yep, they sure are. Is hindsight 20/20? Why yes, yes it is.

Noah is no hellion, he's a touch rough with animals, but that's how kids ARE if you don't teach them otherwise. This is not Noah's fault, nor is it Cowboy's. And my sister and brother-in-law don't deserve to be attacked either. This was an accident. Accidents happen even to the best of us. 

Not everyone can be an I-dogger (who would we patronize if everyone were??), but that doesn't mean non-I-doggers can't have dogs. And really, if someone like Colleen shouldn't own a dog, I can't imagine how many more homeless dogs would be in that "perfect world."

Yes, Idog people are great....but how many folks come on here complaining about their pooches and problems with the interaction of children and dogs....kids are naturally drawn to animals, and most of them don't understand what is allowed and what isn't......imo, it is super hard to manage children and dogs....neither can be controlled 100% of the time....then when things go wrong most dogs get sent off to the pound, with a bite history no less.........I have even seen a member on this board knowingly owning problem dogs, and looking at having kids in the future....

chelsea_b

I don't know what her plan is. I guess she's pretty set on finding him a new home. She doesn't want to be, and dances around coming out and saying that, but I don't think she can deal with having a dog she doesn't trust, and she doesn't see how she can trust him again. I suggested a thorough vet exam and bloodwork, and she said something like "I really don't think it's a medical issue." I suggested a behaviorist, and she pooed that too saying she really doesn't think even after working with a behaviorist that she could ever trust him again. I suggested management, and she doesn't see how that's possible..so I guess it's pretty clear she just doesn't have it in her to keep him, and that's okay, I'm not positive I could keep the dog in her situation. I just don't know where to go from here. All-breed rescue? She wants to keep him if possible til he finds a new home. Think a rescue will let her "foster" him while they search for a home? Or maybe let me foster him? I could probably work that out... It's just so sad. He's such a nice, good dog. I can't imagine him going off and living with strangers. What if they get fed up with him and get rid of him? We can tell people all we want that they need to return him to us, but what if they don't?

Hey, any I-doggers want a good, nice, really pretty dog that apparently just can't have kids? Come on, look at his wittle face...and those freckles! How can you not love him??

What is an I-dogger?