Reward: Millan (Dead or Alive)

amstaffy

move on

Ok, party's over. I hope I will be permitted to say:

Thanks everyone for contributing your opinion!

I appreciate that you took your time and energy to weigh in on this question.  

These kinds of discussions always help me learn more and better about the meanings behind the words on the screen.

amstaffy

I was hoping when I read this thread last night that it actually had some meaning or that there was in fact an "individual".

 Nope, just the normal US vs THEM again.....

I can't believe you said that. Did you read my posts in this thread? I've been trying desperately to make this thread have some meaning and NOT be US vs THEM. Clearly, I've been wasting my time with all my typing about all of us trying to understand the other side and the good and valid reasons people have for doing what they do.

If even you don't see the good that can come out of this, I'm wasting my time. I am very sad about that.

amstaffy

As the water bowl turns....I was hoping when I read this thread last night that it actually had some meaning or that there was in fact an "individual".

 Nope, just the normal US vs THEM again.....

Move on to something more positive

edited to add: sorry I took amstaff's comments as comments and it did not appear like she was saying this thread is locked move on.

I would imagine that Jaime's instruction to "move on" was the result of the thread as a whole, not broken down into individual parts.  Either way, it was a request from an admin so please, follow it. 

FourIsCompany

amstaffy

I was hoping when I read this thread last night that it actually had some meaning or that there was in fact an "individual".

 Nope, just the normal US vs THEM again.....

 

I can't believe you said that. Did you read my posts in this thread? I've been trying desperately to make this thread have some meaning and NOT be US vs THEM. Clearly, I've been wasting my time with all my typing about all of us trying to understand the other side and the good and valid reasons people have for doing what they do.

If even you don't see the good that can come out of this, I'm wasting my time. I am very sad about that.

 

Let me clarify this for you...some have indeed offered real sense to the issue that no training method is balck and white or for every dog. There are a few on this forum who will only use one method and will not think outside of the "collar" to either educate themselves or become well rounded enough to choose a different method for a differnt dog...that is sad.

There are clear lines drawn on this forum and to continuing to hash it out waiting for someone to bite is not appriciated when there are much more positive conversations that could be had...

FourIsCompany

Benedict

Each side thinks the other is wrong.  Period.

 

I don't think anyone is wrong. I take information from all sides and apply it as I determine is needed. Actually, I'm the same politically (Interesting that you mentioned politics).

Benedict

Those who don't like Cesar and are prepared to stand up and be vocal about it are to be COMMENDED

 

I agree. Especially when they can articulate WHY. (I definitely don't think ANYONE should be silenced!) But it's my experience that many Cesar-haters are just that. They hate him without really knowing why. They've never seen his show, they just don't like him. I've asked on other forums why they hate him and the biggest reason I've seen is the fear that the average Joe will misuse his methods. Disclaimers throughout the show don't matter to them. And they have no problem with Evil Knevil jumping motorcycles over cars with a disclaimer, but not Cesar! They don't give the man a break.

To the credit of the people on this board, I haven't seen much of that here. I think we're talking about people "out there" who are acting obsessive and hating on him. Blogging about hating him (I think - I want links). People here at least know why they hate him and can say exactly why.

I am one who dislikes the "pack mentality" teaching, I do not think my dogs are dumb enough to think I am a dog and therefore a pack member.  But, the great worth of the show and his fame/notoriety is that the public is THINKING about dog behavior, observing same and trying to do something about it.  I have learned, after many years of holding classes and going from old-style "correction" work to the more efficacious positive reinforcement style, that it is the accumulated attention an owner or family applies to their canines that most influences the changes in the canine behavior.  So, I will agree to disagree with some of Millan's work, but value the exposure the public gets to the notion of training at all.

MJ

MJ Moss

I am one who dislikes the "pack mentality" teaching, I do not think my dogs are dumb enough to think I am a dog and therefore a pack member.  But, the great worth of the show and his fame/notoriety is that the public is THINKING about dog behavior, observing same and trying to do something about it.  I have learned, after many years of holding classes and going from old-style "correction" work to the more efficacious positive reinforcement style, that it is the accumulated attention an owner or family applies to their canines that most influences the changes in the canine behavior.  So, I will agree to disagree with some of Millan's work, but value the exposure the public gets to the notion of training at all.

MJ

I'm right there with you on a personal level! I love the fact that Milan's shows have put an emphasis on training John Q Public's dogs. The biggest issues I find with dog laws are because of irresponsible dog owners whos dogs have not been trained or socialized. With the breed I own (and what Milan focuses on) you are constantly fighting to keep your rights to own...education being key when it comes to legislators but they don't always see it as the owners being th problem...they always feel it is the dog.

 Training no matter what type as long as it is effective is what our society needs and again, it will never be one size fits all

amstaffy

Let me clarify this for you...some have indeed offered real sense to the issue that no training method is balck and white or for every dog. There are a few on this forum who will only use one method and will not think outside of the "collar" to either educate themselves or become well rounded enough to choose a different method for a differnt dog...that is sad.

I am reading this and I am thinking that most people who appreciate CM also apply other methods, most of us keep saying that we apply more than just what CM has to offer. I , personally might not use treats to train, but I give reward, may it be with throwing the ball, brushing my dogs, which they love, a nice walk in the woods, chasing the ATV, or even just being loved by rubbing them the way they like it.....let's not forget the praise.......yay.......but, I am feeling that the so called "Other side" is not even willing to think outside the +R box, and continuously accuses other posters of horrible things like yanking necks and such.......so, in reality, who is stuck on one thing and not being open minded? And that is what I think is sad.

snownose

amstaffy

Let me clarify this for you...some have indeed offered real sense to the issue that no training method is balck and white or for every dog. There are a few on this forum who will only use one method and will not think outside of the "collar" to either educate themselves or become well rounded enough to choose a different method for a differnt dog...that is sad.

 

 

I am reading this and I am thinking that most people who appreciate CM also apply other methods, most of us keep saying that we apply more than just what CM has to offer. I , personally might not use treats to train, but I give reward, may it be with throwing the ball, brushing my dogs, which they love, a nice walk in the woods, chasing the ATV, or even just being loved by rubbing them the way they like it.....let's not forget the praise.......yay.......but, I am feeling that the so called "Other side" is not even willing to think outside the +R box, and continuously accuses other posters of horrible things like yanking necks and such.......so, in reality, who is stuck on one thing and not being open minded? And that is what I think is sad.

 

Does anyone here do that? I don't see that happening.... I must be reading the wrong threads!

I'll pm ya......

snownose

I am reading this and I am thinking that most people who appreciate CM also apply other methods, most of us keep saying that we apply more than just what CM has to offer. I , personally might not use treats to train, but I give reward, may it be with throwing the ball, brushing my dogs, which they love, a nice walk in the woods, chasing the ATV, or even just being loved by rubbing them the way they like it.....let's not forget the praise.......yay.......but, I am feeling that the so called "Other side" is not even willing to think outside the +R box, and continuously accuses other posters of horrible things like yanking necks and such.......so, in reality, who is stuck on one thing and not being open minded? And that is what I think is sad.

 I think it works on both sides..I've seen many threads in the past talking about treat dispensing clicker trainers. I'm always baffled about the "other side"...when I read that phrase it always makes me think of when I was in High School and there was a chant..."The other side sucks" back and forth it would go from one side to the other and honestly, this is really what this type of thread/conversation is doing as well. Not many are "in the middle"  It's eithe rthis side or that side and ech one can't seem to reach the middle and agree to the fact that other methods could and should be used. There is a line one forms to the right and the other to the left and never should the two meet??? Haters? I hope that they really aren't haters.

I can see through history of this forum that many do use what ever training method that works for each individual dog needs but there are some who wouldn't think of using one method vs another and so the same of trainers. I've never clicker trained although many friends have told me it is a great way to train. I have used choke collars(nylon and chain) as well as prong collars, I've never felt the need for an e-collar although I'm not oppsed to it if I knew how to use it properly and every other aspect/tool of training did not work. In a perfect world, we could say what we want the dog to do and they'd understand. This isn't a perfect world and thats why they call it training...we've all been trained ourselves, think about it..our parents trained us what was acceptable and what was not...some of us got it and were fine, other like myself pushed the envelope and found out what it was like to be diciplined...I look at dogs the same way with training...not every method for every dog

Chuffy

Does anyone here do that? I don't see that happening.... I must be reading the wrong threads!

Surely you jest!

amstaffy

Training no matter what type as long as it is effective is what our society needs and again, it will never be one size fits all

 I completely agree.  In fact, I think that trainers should be exposed to the majority of training methods, utilize ALL that they have learned and come to an informed decision as to the efficacy of training philosophies that they use.  Espousing one method above others that have not been tried (eliminating of course the Richling school of thought etc) seems to me a bit presumptive.
 

I'm confused ... is the thread still open for all folks, or just some folks?

Any thread that is open is open to all.  There will NEVER be any situation where it is only ok for "some" to post on a thread.  Anyone who feels like they have a worthwhile, productive contribution may do so.  Anyone who feels as if they are unable to do so due to the atmosphere in a thread is welcome to contact a Mod or Admin.