Reward: Millan (Dead or Alive)

So, are you saying that if we offer our side, arch our back and pull our hair up the dog is not threatened?....LOL

I think my dogs would lose respect for me.......LOL

snownose

So, are you saying that if we offer our side, arch our back and pull our hair up the dog is not threatened?....LOL

I think my dogs would lose respect for me.......LOL

Your dogs may or may not lose respect for you but I just got a funny visual of that. It nearly knocked my off of my train of thought. I use side-presentation in greeting a dog that doesn't know me. After a moment or so, I will drop, bending at the knees and offer a relaxed hand at my side.

ron2

Your dogs may or may not lose respect for you but I just got a funny visual of that. It nearly knocked my off of my train of thought. I use side-presentation in greeting a dog that doesn't know me. After a moment or so, I will drop, bending at the knees and offer a relaxed hand at my side.

 

I was joking bigtime in my post....lol

I never approach a dog, may it be a rescue or a foster, or even a boarder, face on, unless I know the dog (learned my lesson when I was nine years old, wanted to pet a dog, he didn't like it.......well, I still have a scar on my hand from that bite)....I ignore the dog for quiet some time.....until the dog approaches me and really wants to check me out.......walking away at first and making the environment not a threatening one is very important.......I also never pet a dog, unless the owner has given approval.....I, on the other hand, never let anyone handle or touch my dogs.......unless we are at the vet.

lostcoyote

i learned that by watching millan early on that the best way to greet a dog is by immediately giving it an alpha roll in a calm asserive manner ;)

Hahahaha.....alright.....we are on the right track....lol

So, I've picked out what I think answers the metaphor of the Original Post.

Why do people so strongly dislike Cesar Millan and actively seek to discredit and criticize him and his methods?

1. Some note a lack of clarity, concise terminology and specific methods. The “airy-fairiness” (what I call “woo-woo”) of his approach. (One of the aspects that actually attracts many people)
   
2. Some don’t agree with his techniques that ARE clearly outlined. They are too physical and correction-based, especially for “soft” dogs. Dogs don’t respond to humans trying to discipline and behave like a dog.
3. Some feel that the title “Dog Whisperer” is divisive and puts him on a pedestal as someone who has a "specialness" that we could never hope to attain.
4. Some see CM as the figurehead of the (non +R Only) “movement”. The +R Only "movement" doesn't have one single "face" to present as an authority, therefore they must defend their methods and therefore themselves as individuals instead of a cohesive group under one "leader".
   
5. Some people feel threatened that their own dog training methods will be discredited by CM's likability and popularity. Perhaps this reason is shared by "CM haters" and "CM defenders" alike. (This sounds VERY much like the number one answer to why "CM defenders" are offended by the criticisms: 1. Some people are not confident about their own choices, and feel threatened by being told they are wrong.)
6. Crankiness LOL
   

OK. All of this tells me why people don't particularly like or follow him, but only reasons 3 - 5 get to the emotional heart of why people not only dislike him, but "hate" him, call him and his proponents childish names and go after any positive statements about him with venom and anger. And I couldn't help but notice that reason nymber 5 here is VERY similar to reason number 1 on the other list...

Each "side" has a few good, solid, rational, opinion-based reasons for why we feel the way we do. We also have a few irrational, emotional-based reasons that we hold dear to our hearts. We are different people with different contexts and personalities, so we're going to make different cnoices. But we ALL love our dogs. We all want to do the very best for them. I think that's the most important thing to remember. My point?

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

One more thing I wanted to add...

Assumptions.

Both "sides" of this issue (Pro-CM and Anti-CM) make assumption about the other side. And we know what making assumptions makes of us all.

I'm going to list some of the assumptions that I can see being made in these discussions. Some of these assumptions may be true and some may not be. Some are true for some people but not for others. The problem comes when we assume that all of them are true for all people.

Assumptions about Anti-CM people:

• They are too lenient with their animals. They indulge them like spoiled children.
  
• Their dogs rule their homes, control the furniture and are badly-behaved.
• They are a little bit afraid of their dogs.
• They don't like CM so that means they don't like CM supporters. 
• They are closed-minded. Their way is the only way.
• They have a holier-than-thou attitude toward CM and his supporters/defenders.
  
• They are jealous of CM's success and hate him for no reason.
  
• They think CM supporters are cruel.
  

Assumptions about Pro-CM people:

• They don't have good relationships with their dogs. It's poisoned. They are mean.
  
• They don't respect their dogs. Their dogs cower to them.
• They do whatever Cesar says. They are "disciples" of the CM "cult".
• If someone supports CM, they support EVERYTHING he does.
• They jerk on their dogs, alpha roll them, helicopter them, finger-bite and say "tssst" to their dogs.
• They selfishly need to feel in control, powerful and dominant and that's why CM appeals to them.
• They're old-fashioned and need to come up to speed with the "new" behavior techniques and forget about "pack dynamics"
• They're lazy and want a "quick fix" instead of spending the time to train their dogs.
• They use CM methods and techniques because they think +R doesn't work. They don't use +R at all.
  

Thoughts?

 

FourIsCompany

Thoughts?

My only assumption is that BOTH love dogs a whole heck of a lot, and want to do what's most helpful to said dogs.

Awesome discussion, everyone!

FourIsCompany

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

Thank you!

FourIsCompany

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

We are a lot more ALIKE than we are different.

I am interested in hearing what others think of Four’s post? Does this hit the nail on the head for those on the “other” side? And I say other side only to define the debates we have had in the past regarding this topic as I do not believe that the chasm that separated us is vast, it is more like a very small ditch that I am sure we could jump over if we just stopped to look at it.

 I thought I would take the time to be open and honest in regards to the assumptions part of four's post copied below with my thoughts . Edited to add: This is how I feel personally and therefore if I say no that does not mean the point is not valid for someone else.

Assumptions about Anti-CM people:

• They are too lenient with their animals. They indulge them like spoiled children. I have not thought this much at all
  
• Their dogs rule their homes, control the furniture and are badly-behaved.  Nor this one
• They are a little bit afraid of their dogs.  Nor this one
• They don't like CM so that means they don't like CM supporters.  Yes I have thought this
• They are closed-minded. Their way is the only way. Yes on this one to
• They have a holier-than-thou attitude toward CM and his supporters/defenders.  yes
  
• They are jealous of CM's success and hate him for no reason.  Yes although I might substitute resentful instead of jealous
  
• They think CM supporters are cruel. This is the one that I feel the most
  

Assumptions about Pro-CM people:

• They don't have good relationships with their dogs. It's poisoned. They are mean.  Yes I have felt judged on this one
  
• They don't respect their dogs. Their dogs cower to them.  Yes I have felt judged on this one
• They do whatever Cesar says. They are "disciples" of the CM "cult".  this one has never bothered me
• If someone supports CM, they support EVERYTHING he does.  on occasion
• They jerk on their dogs, alpha roll them, helicopter them, finger-bite and say "tssst" to their dogs.  yes
• They selfishly need to feel in control, powerful and dominant and that's why CM appeals to them.  yes
• They're old-fashioned and need to come up to speed with the "new" behavior techniques and forget about "pack dynamics"  yes
• They're lazy and want a "quick fix" instead of spending the time to train their dogs.  maybe

.:.

AAARRRGHH!!  I just wrote a REALLY long post and lost the whole thing!  I could cry, I spent AGES on that

being discussed ad nauseum on various net boards? Being a topic of discussion is fun for many folks. This is probably the easiest one to take right out from under them, too.