dominant action?

    • Gold Top Dog

    dominant action?

    i have been reading a book, and the author states that if your dog greets you by jumping up on you they are showing dominance and if you let them continue to do this it will cause problems later on. i am pretty sure i have read the same or similar sentiments in at least one other book as well.

    my questions are:

    do you think this is true? why/why not?

    i always thought it was just a show of affection.

    thanks for any responses.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I do not agree with this at all. 
     
    One of the traits of the pharaoh hound is that they do the "pharaoh hound bounce" and they'll jump up and bounce off of anyone (human, dog or otherwise) during the greeting process. 
     
    Example:  Xerxes jumps up to greet his breeder whenever we meet her at shows.  A quick bounce up and then he's on his back or darting around with his whole body wagging.  His brother and sister (who still live with the breeder) do this, as does his mother, and the two other females that live with her.  And, of course, Gaia will do this too. 
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ooops double post, just read the one that is under this one [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog

    It can be both IMO, my schnauzer used to jump on me when i was getting home and i can bet my home that she is way far from being dominant, regardless of the causes i think you should not let that happen and should be respectful with everybody

    Watch this video, click where it says "Boo"

    [linkhttp://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/dogwhisperer/showclips.php]http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/dogwhisperer/showclips.php[/link]
    • Gold Top Dog
    The way it was explained to me was: Dogs greet each other face to face, your face and the dog's face, depending on your height and the size of the dog, will be a couple of feet appart, the best way to shorten that distance? jump. A solution? kneel to greet your dog before he/she has a chance to jump, or cross your arms and look upwards so no matter what the dog cannot see your face. It worked for me.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: eley

    The way it was explained to me was: Dogs greet each other face to face, your face and the dog's face, depending on your height and the size of the dog, will be a couple of feet appart, the best way to shorten that distance? jump. A solution? kneel to greet your dog before he/she has a chance to jump, or cross your arms and look upwards so no matter what the dog cannot see your face. It worked for me.

     
    Actually face to face when meeting each other is a sign of aggression, they meet each other smelling their private parts
     
    A dog can smell you 3 or 4 feet away so they dont need to jump to smell who you are
     
    Crossing your arms is a way to ignore the behavior and that can help, ignore and the dog will stop jumping or you can do the same that comes in the video that i posted before
    • Gold Top Dog
    Lots of dogs jump while greeting that is not domiance, it them trying to get to you.  My best advise would be ignore him, turn you back and walk away.  Don't speak and don't touch andy touching or speaking relates to a response to jumping in his mind.  My dog this and it took some time to correct.  When he does have all four paws on the groung, treat him and give him praise then so he knows what acations do actually give him the attention he is looking for.  You can read the dog listener by Jan Fennell she has a good protocal for this type of behavior.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: espencer

    Actually face to face when meeting each other is a sign of aggression, they meet each other smelling their private parts


    From where do you get that ?  There are many different greeting behaviors that dogs have.  I've counted at least five that my dog knows depending upon which dog he is greeting.  Face to face is one of them and I've never seen that characterized as aggressive. 

    The greeting I've seen end up in more aggression is the shoulder to shoulder facing each other's hind end greeting.  I've only seen males do this, and they tend to ruffle their fur, and raise their tail high.  It's more a nt male greeting, from what I've seen.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: espencer

    ORIGINAL: eley

    The way it was explained to me was: Dogs greet each other face to face, your face and the dog's face, depending on your height and the size of the dog, will be a couple of feet appart, the best way to shorten that distance? jump. A solution? kneel to greet your dog before he/she has a chance to jump, or cross your arms and look upwards so no matter what the dog cannot see your face. It worked for me.


    Actually face to face when meeting each other is a sign of aggression, they meet each other smelling their private parts



    For strange dogs, maybe. But even strange dogs will usually meet face to face and THEN go sniff each other's butts. Dogs in the same pack, in my experience, greet ecstatically by pinning the ears back and trying to lick each others' faces. Actually, come to think, I've seen a lot of very friendly strange dogs meet our dogs by running up and nosing or licking around the mouth with ears pinned back, tail wagging low, and head held low in submission. That's very much a submissive dog greeting.

    I think jumping up is usually not an indication that the dog is trying to dominate you. It's hard when things are never so cut and dried. Sometimes dogs will try to move you, and that's sometimes a dominance issue, but then, I think mostly they're just trying to reach your face and lick your mouth. I don't stand for it, but that's because I don't like being jumped on and don't want my dog to think it's okay to jump on anyone. We've had kids and frail old people around and it's nice to be able to trust that your dog won't jump on them and knock them over. To me, it's rude behaviour and I teach dogs they have to have all 4 feet on the ground before I'll let them greet me. I'm afraid I do it to other people's dogs as well, but I really just don't like being jumped on. I think there are heaps of better indicators to whether a dog is being dominating towards humans and I would think that most dogs that jump up are just trying to be friendly and don't think anything of it.
    • Puppy
    For the most part I disagree. Dogs commonly greet each other sniffing muzzles and then move onto the genital/rear area. Natalie has had her muzzle licked by many dogs she was meeting for the first time..there was nothing aggressive about it. I agree with the poster who stated that dogs are more likely trying to get to face level...closer to our mouths.
    This is not to say that jumping up is never a "dominant" behavior. To me, there is a huge difference between a friendly greeting and a challenge.

    Dog jumping up, wiggling its entire body in excitement = friendly greeting. Dog jumps up, places paws on you, stiffens his body and stares hard directly into your eyes = "dominant"...I rarely see dogs greeting humans this way.

    .
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree with nern.  But, the simple solution is that humans don't often like to be jumped on - thus, they simply need to teach the dog to "sit" instead for purposes of greeting.  Personally, since my hound's feet never leave the floor, and my Aussies wouldn't think to jump on a stranger, if they jump on me in greeting, I don't particularly care.  Your dog's behavior is up to you - you can train them to do, or not do, the behaviors you want.
    If I suddenly get tired of my pup jumping on me when she's 10 years old, I can train her that it's no longer acceptable.  If that weren't true, no one would ever be able to train a rescued dog.  My Yorkie would not know the "long down".  (She learned it when she was 15).
    Don't make more of the jumping than it is - in most pet dogs, it's simply that the human was unsuccessful in training the dog, or chose not to, rather than the dog being "dominant" over its owner. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    thanks everyone. i thought it was generally just a friendly (albeit a little rude) behavior. the book i was reading made it sound like it was always an action of dominance, and i wanted to make sure i wasnt misreading my own dog. [:D]

    amelia generally wont jump up to greet us (occassionally she will), but she never has done this to our visitors. sydney on the otherhand..... let's just say we are working on it.[;)][:D] i generally dont mind when he jumps up on me, but he tries to greet everyone this way and we are working on getting him to stop.
    • Gold Top Dog
    "There is no equality in a dog's mind"...I can't remember where I read that, but I have found it to be true.
     
    Their behavior from moment to moment is a form of communication of "who is who" and "where do we stand" in any given relationship at the moment the dominant or submissive behavior is displayed.
     
    A "dominant" behavior can be a question of "Who's in charge here?" - the dog is if it is allowed, or it can be a statement of "I'm in charge here" - the dog is if it is allowed. It is a language of sorting out heirarchy so that we can then procede on to other things with the leader (dominant being) directing the activities/making decisions and the follower (submissive being) complying with the direction.
     
    If a dog puts it's paws up on another dog's back and elevates itself above the other dog and the other dog lets it, this can be a form of communication of who is who and who is the more dominant animal between the two. The dog who is "submitting" to being stood on, is not the more "dominant" being at this moment in this interaction.
     
    If a dog jumps up uninvited and you allow it, it may simply be saying to the dog that "they" are the "dominant" being in the relationship at this moment because they feel free to jump on you, and by you allowing it you may be agreeing to taking the submissive role in the relationship.
     
    This isn't about the dog trying to take over (the way humans think of it) or being "aggressive" with you. It's just one of the many things they do in their everyday interactions with us or each other which communicates the current status between any two individuals.
     
    Many people cannot accept that a dog will not view us as an equal partner. It's a romantic view which does not honor the dog as a dog. Most dogs which become confused in their relationships with people become so because we humans do a lot of things (inadvertantly) which communicate "submission" to a dog in our efforts to be fair, friendly, or an equal partner. 
     
    More than this, the constant flip-flop many humans communicate (with their dogs) by acting like a leader through "dominant" signals one minute, and acting like a follower through "submissive" signals the next can be quite confusing to dogs, IMO.
     
     
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    i guess my philosophy is to take into account the dog's entire body language, and not just an action. usually when sydney jumps up on me his tail is wagging and he is trying to lick my face. i see that entire action as a show of affection.

    to break it down into separate parts is kind of counterintuitive, if you assume that jumping up on someone is always a show of dominance. all of the documentaries i have seen on wolves state that the submissive wolves (the betas and omegas) will lick the alpha pair's faces, but never the other way around.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

    all of the documentaries i have seen on wolves state that the submissive wolves (the betas and omegas) will lick the alpha pair's faces, but never the other way around.


     
    This is true, whether it is a request for regurgitation from younger members when an adult returns from a hunt, or a sign of submission by subordinant members who continue this display into adulthood to communicate submission in the form of a clear and recognised signal.
     
    However, you will not find a subordinant wolf jumping up on a more dominant wolf (outside of a bit of play initiated by the dominant animal) without getting disciplined for the action.
     
    With dogs, I pretty much stick to an "action/reaction" principle. Myna M. Milani has a program which I believe she calls LIFR - Leaders Initiate Followers React. I've seen plenty of dogs use submissive (cute puppyish) signals to manipulate their humans into giving them treats. Dog initiates an unrequested behavior - human gives them a treat. The dog has "trained" the owner in this situation.
     
    My own dog had trained my boyfriend to fetch her a cookie on demand, until I caught what was going on.