How to stop barking using reinforcement techniques?

    • Gold Top Dog

    How to stop barking using reinforcement techniques?

    I am all for using reinforcement techniques and not punishment to shape a dog's behaviour. But one instance that I can't figure out is when Scout is barking her brain out at a neighborhood cat, squirrel, or shadow. My reaction is "Scout NO, leave it". And this routine repeats for about 5 minutes until she finally gives up.
     
    Usually when she does something 'bad' I ignore the behaviour and then reward when good behaviour returns. In this case my ignoring of the barking means nothing to Scout - she doesn't care what I'm doing, she is focused on barking at the backyard 'intruder'.
     
    My second thought was to bring her inside when she is barking, so I am removing her from the situation. This works about 50% - she still paces and barks like crazy but not as much as outside.
     
    What do you do?
    • Gold Top Dog
    IN honesty I never 'ignore' bad behavior like that -- when it is specifically something I've trained them not to do.  'ignoring' it is the same then as getting away with it and it will reinforce it.
     
    When one of mine barks, they get ONE bark to tell me whatever is there is out there (and typically I call them TO me and give copious praise for that), but if I can't get attention IMMEDIATELY, I go **to** the dog and ask them to sit.  (whole separate old reliable behavior).  I will even tip up their head if I can't get attention any other way but I make them focus on ME.  I'd snap on the lead and bring them away from that thing. 
     
    IN short, when they see something they feel compelled to bark at I get them to come TO ME to 'tell' me and then *I* go investigate the thing (with them ON LEASH if need be).
     
    The critical thing is to get their attention on you and your physical presence is the best way to do that.
    • Gold Top Dog
    barking is a tough one because many dogs literally have no voluntary control over their vocalizations. The basic protocol to teaching a dog to stop barking on command is to wait for the dog to stop, then give your cue (mine is That's enough)  and reward. Alternatively you can attract the dog's attention back onto you (call the name or whatever works for your dog) and again offer the stop-bark cue and reward. Yelling at your barking dog is counter-productive-- many dogs seem to assume you are barking along with them. Surprisingly it can really help to teach the dog to BARK on command-- this helps many dogs learn how to voluntarily control their barking.
    But all that said, many dogs never ever learn to control their barking. Thus the popularity of automatic no-bark or bark-limiter collars.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Because the behavior is self-reinforcing, you're going to have to use some sort of punishment (-P or +P).

    I like time outs (-P). Barking= swiftly being moved to an isolated place (a corner, bathroom, etc.) for like 30 seconds. Not in an angry way, not scolding the dog, just removing the dog from the scene of the behavior. Dog comes out and barks again? Back into corner. Repeat until dog figures out that the only way to stay with everyone is to control barking.

    The only drawback is that it can be difficult to be swift and elegant with a time-out, to time it well, especially when the dog is away from you. But I would use this before trying a +P no-bark collar, mostly because it's free.

    • Gold Top Dog
    When Conrad watchdogs (we live in the city right up against the sidewalk and he can get way agitated sometimes at the front window), I call him over to me and put him into a down-stay and then reward for that. He can't bark while he's laying down (maybe some dogs can, but he needs to get the full body-bark happening) so that pretty much solves the issue. It's actually also been improving his propensity to watchdog as he's started to get used to barking once, then looking over at me to see if I'm going to tell him to do something.
     
    This isn't going to work when no one is home, but when we're not home, he's in his crate in a room with the blinds pulled, so there's nothing for him to watchdog about.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Mudpuppy, I do enjoy reading your posts and from you I have learned and applied alot.  I am a creature of habit so consistency is easy for me to apply.  Please comment on two things.  1.)  Would there be a difference in your approach if the dog is barking at something versus the dog barking as a result of of anxiety.  With my Marvin, my SA/fake SA foster, I place him in the backyard for alone time.  At first he bark, hoot, and howl.  From inside the house I would shout SHUT UP and he did.  He does not bark anymore during his alone time.  2.)  In other threads you have stated using the "NO" command to be totally useless in training and I hope I did not misread what you wrote.  I don't understand this unless conceptually you are referring to negative reinforcement.  Can you expand or refer me to a thread where it is further explain.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree, you dont need punishment to correct behavior, i persnonally wont use treats, if they work for you thats ok but i feel that rewarding a dog untill he stopped with bad behavior is like saying " good job barking, you scared them, keep protecting the house", thats my opinion, i am NOT saying that other people who think the opposite are wrong, thats only not the way i would approach the situation

    I would put myself between the dog and the thing that is making him bark, if you stand behind him he wont listen because his attention is in something else and as long as he is watching the thing that is making him bark he wont pay attention to you, for example if he is watching a cat thru the window then i will stand between him and the window and while i'm facing him i would say something like "hey!!", most of the times it works only by doing that, if the dog still keeps barking and doesnt listen to me i would touch him in the shoulder and say "hey!!" but if you dont want to touch your dog at all you can just take him away like other posters said

    Also like they said before we should see if barking is just a way to release anxiety or frustration, in that case it does not matter what the reason is, he would bark at anything anyways so it means that is time for a long walk to release energy accumulated

    So dont worry, in this forum nobody is pro punishment
    • Gold Top Dog
    Please comment on two things. 1.) Would there be a difference in your approach if the dog is barking at something versus the dog barking as a result of of anxiety.

     
    oh definitely I would use a different approach. Dogs who bark because they are stuck outside alone need their lifestyle re-evaluated, not training. Dogs with separation anxiety need the anxiety treated, not training, and definitely should not ever have a non-bark collar put on them or be punished for being anxious.  Dogs who are just watchdog barking, I'd first try teaching them to stop barking on command.  But I and many others have found it very difficult to teach dogs to stop barking on command-- you have to have really good timing in offering your cue and reward (otherwise you may be inadvertently rewarding the barking itself). Some dogs quickly grasp the concept, others, well, if you turn to a no-bark collar to keep from being evicted or to keep your sanity, that's ok, worse things have happened.
    If you want to try an aversive verbal marker and see if that works for your dog, I would suggest trying some word other than NO. Really, listen to some one yelling No repeatedly. It sounds an awful lot like a dog barking which may encourage your dog to bark more. A sharp eh eh or an uh oh or whoops are better choices. Some people report success with squirt guns as an aversive technique- I'm not fond of wet dogs myself, and if going to a strong aversive would rather employ an automatic device that has perfect timing, i.e. an antibark collar.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree, getting the dog wet was never a good thing.
     
    Barking sometimes is a way to release energy, maybe the dog needs more excercise because has energy accumulated
     
    After a good 1 hour long walk you can see that the dog wont care is there's cats falling from the sky [;)]
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: houndlove
    When Conrad watchdogs (we live in the city right up against the sidewalk and he can get way agitated sometimes at the front window), I call him over to me and put him into a down-stay and then reward for that. He can't bark while he's laying down (maybe some dogs can, but he needs to get the full body-bark happening) so that pretty much solves the issue. It's actually also been improving his propensity to watchdog as he's started to get used to barking once, then looking over at me to see if I'm going to tell him to do something.

     
    How did you initially get your dog to respond to you when he was barking?  Also, can you teach a dog when it's appropriate to bark and when it's not?  We've been having the same issue with our Scout... she never used to bark, but lately has been getting more vocal.  Usually she just barks for a minute, but last night, she barked for about 15 minutes straight!!  We closed all the blinds, but she still kept going to the window and barking and we COULD NOT get her attention.  I didn't want to use any form of punishment because I don't want her to think barking is never allowed... I'd CERTAINLY want her to bark if someone was in our yard, or worse, trying to get in our house.  But last night, it turned out to just be a skunk she was barking at, which doesn't require my dog to alert me as they have their own warning mechanism!!  It would be great if she turned out to be a good watch dog, but we'd have to fine-tune her barking skills first!
    • Gold Top Dog
    He won't stop barking just because I say his name, but he will come over to me if I do the "Conrad! C'mere! C'mere Boy!" happy fun thing. Then he does come over and that's when he gets told to down and gets his lovin's and a goodie (if there's one readily available). If he's really being a twit about it, I may go over to where he is and take his collar (not a yank, just as if I was walking him on his leash) and walk with him to another part of the room ("yes! good boy! let's go!") and then do the down. He's a very soft dog, luckily, and his downs often turn into belly-rub-a-thons because he'd actually really much prefer that to having a protectiveness fit. And I'd like to encourage that feeling in him as much as possible.
     
    I found the biggest difference came when I stopped going "CONRAD!!! [:@]" to get his attention and changed to "Conrad! [:D] C'mere! [:D]"
     
    I don't know how to differentiate between when it's okay and not okay to bark. In my world, it's really never somthing I want. We live in a city, in a duplex, in close quarters with lots of other people, with two dogs who have very loud barks. I'm not really concerned for our safety, so I don't need an alarm system. Besides, if something is amiss, the dogs can show me in other ways that they are concerned. Even when not barking, they will do a low growl and pace a little if something is not quite right outside. That's enough for me and will wake me even out of a dead sleep without also waking the entire neighborhood!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I found the biggest difference came when I stopped going "CONRAD!!! " to get his attention and changed to "Conrad! C'mere! "

     
    I can definitely relate to that. My boyfriend gets frustrated that 'Scout doesn't listen' and I have to remind him that Scout would LOVE to come over and pay attention if you put a smile on your face.... what dog wants to come see you when you sound like you're popping a blood vessel from frustration?? [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am lucky in the fact that my dog is not a barker.  He vocalizes heavily,  but he is not a huge barker.  He is finally to the point where he's got his big "watchdog" bark, and, when Strauss barks, it is a time when you should see what's going on outside, because he doesn't bark just to hear himself.
     
    After I've investigated what he's barking at, if it's just friends at the door (which is usually what it is unless the neighbors dogs are being stupid), I tell him "Good dog, but that's enough," and he quits.  I've always rewarded behavior for being quiet.  If my dog sits in front of my and barks, he gets nothing, but the moment he shuts up, "Good quiet!" and he gets a cookie.
     
    This has worked for many puppies that come into my puppy class barking like fools.  They're much better and they have learned to control themselves.  Generally, my rule of thumb is "Always check it out" if possible, because if you keep trying to correct your dog from afar or always call him to you, there may be one day when your pup is barking at some real trouble and you ignore it, or you've conditioned your dog not to bark out the window and the dog may be agitated, but thinks "....but I'm not supposed to do this anymore."
     
    But like I said, I have the luxury of a GSD that doesn't bark unless neccessary, so I KNOW I need to check it out.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am currently trying to work with my dog on her barking when we go camping. She likes to bark at other dogs and kids on bikes. So far, calling her to me and asking for a sit or stay then rewarding her has helped - but now she barks a couple times, then comes to me for a treat! after the reward, she runs back and barks then returns and sits or lies down again for a treat. It appears I've taught her to bark for treats!

    By the end of our last camping trip I was making her wait longer in a down-stay for the reward. Eventually, I hope to get her to keep the down-stay until the distraction is gone.

    The bark-down-treat is an improvement over the previous barking-and-lunging-incessantly behavior we had before, so I can deal for now.
    • Gold Top Dog
    jenhuedepohl, I think this is a common problem and it's definately something our trainer warned us about, not just in relation to barking, but in training anything that requires your dog gives you attention and doesn't break it for anything. I inadvertently taught Marlowe to go out to the end of his leash and then come back to me for his reward, rather than coming back to me and staying with me, when we trained for loose-leash walking. Same phenomenon. I mistakenly taught him quite effectively that the way to get a treat was to go out to the end of the leash, wait till he heard "Walk..." and then come up to my side and walk with me for a few paces. Using a release word ("ok!") helped him to understand that he is to maintain the behavior until I release him, not when he feels like starting the process again in order to get another reward.
     
    Maybe one of our more experienced trainers could talk about preventing this and using release words to aid in maintaining behaviors?
     
    That's a gorgeous dog you got there, BTW.