Male Dominance (Marvin issue)

It sounds to me that Marvin has a higher status than Petro.  Marvin is allowed unrestricted access to the females and Petro is not.  If you have 5 dogs one will always be the "zeta" or lowest in status.  The order was chosen when Marvin "went aggressively" at Petro.  If you pay attention I'll bet that Marvin has his pick of sleeping area/lounge area as well. 
 
Size, in this case, does not matter. What matters to Marvin is that there is another male competing for attention from the females.
 
Are all of your dogs altered? 

All are neuter except Drizzle who just came into season.  Surprisingly that fact does not effect the other dogs.  Marvin does his normal sniff and Drizzle does her normal one two punch of Marvin with her front paws.  If there is a "zeta" in the group, it is Blizzard, female 185lbs.  She is the one that gets the 1st pick of everything.  I need my group to have a flat heirarchy in order to maintain harmony in the house.  Do I show more favoritism to Petro?

absolutely not. If you "undermine" Marvin's status by favoring Petro, you will probably incite Marvin to harass Petro even more. You cannot have a "flat" pack structure, nor are you likely to be able to change the dog's minds about their pack structure.
You may need to split the group up for play sessions.

Thanks, the advice is the total opposite of what common sense tells me.  It is hard not to give Petro special attention when he is isolated.  The breaks are on but I did drive a little and I skidded.  I will let them work this out themself and give Petro special time with only the females.

I know it's hard, but I have to admit that most of the--okay, all of the (admittedly very few) problems we've had with our dogs is when we try to make them all egalitarian and think they should share nicely with each other. Just a few weeks after we brought Marlowe home, he and Conrad got into a squabble which resulted in Marlowe needing stitches (though the fight was not a bad one--it was just a lucky shot on Conrad's part) because my husband thought they should play with one toy together rather than letting Conrad just horde it. And that is, of course, a really bad idea. Conrad is the alpha dog in the house and us taking a toy from him and giving it directly to his inferior totally undermined his authority and he had to do something to get it back. Marlowe didn't even want the toy--he also knew that he shouldn't have it.
 
Conrad has been a bit of a jerk lately and on the advice of the good folks here, I began to pay attention to making sure I reinforce the pack structure rather than undermine it. Since I've been doing so, and removing situations where things are too dicey (kongs are given in seperate rooms because those are the highest value items in our house), things have been improving a lot and I can feed them side by side again after just a couple weeks of being mindful of the rankings.

Thank you, your messages are always helpful.  But what about all that stuff that says I am suppose to be the ALPHA in the house.  Is there a pecking order that exist that I am just not aware of?  With 3 dogs of my own and 2 to 3 fosters coming and going, the dynamics of the pack always changes.  Maybe this is the first time I noticed because it is so subtle with Marvin who has only been with me for 6 weeks and is the newest member in the pack.  If there is a Alph female does that neutralize the Alpha male or vice versa?  Is Alpha within gender?

yes, you need to be the alpha. But in dog packs, the alpha really doesn't care about the heirarchy the other dogs set up, as long as they all defer to the alpha. The alpha would never bother to interfer between the beta and the omega dogs.

Yeah, what I meant is that Conrad is the alpha dog. I and my husband are the alpha male and female humans. I don't really believe that dogs see humans as dogs, so I think they see us as alpha humans but among themselves they have their dog alpha well. Both dogs defer to DH and I equally, but the definately have an order among themselves.

Interesting, the dogs distiguishing between alpha people and alpha dogs.  Now that I am thinking about it, I always count on Blizzard, 185lb female Great Dane who has the special quality of not hearing, to keep the fosters in line if aggression or playing-too-rough should occur.  I believe she is one who stopped Marvin from going after and attacking Petro.  Blizzard is usually on the sidelines watching and if play gets rough she does one of two things.  She puts her mouth next to their ear and gives a big giant WHOOF.  If the behavior continues she then brings the dog down with her head and holds the dog down with her chest.  Marvin's behavior changed from attacking Petro to herding Petro.  If my observation are correct, Blizzard was able to change the behavior of a subordinate which turned out to be a good thing for Petro, although he is still herded to the sidelines.

I reread this thread and also read the thread Becoming Part of the Pack and I am open to the wisdom and advice of the participants.  One participant suggested the book Dogs by Raymond Coppinger and the books is on its way but I decided to get the book only after another participant gave it high marks and shared how the writings influenced her thinking of dog packs.
 
Yesterday Marvin did his herding thing of Petro and while doing so an incident occurred.  Marvin growled and lunged at Petro and Petro did the same thing back.  I yelled “Yeah!” and the two stopped, looked at me and both came over.  This was unusually because once Petro was placed on the outskirts of the yard by Marvin, I could not coax Petro to come to me, his fearful eyes were on Marvin.  I also observed during play, Marvin#%92s behavior is changing.  Before it was this “its my toy”, now its looks like he is sharing.  Marvin is playing tug-og-war and also wants to be chased by the other dogs.  At the end of the chase, Drizzle, Sassy, and Petro (notice I said Petro) surrounds Marvin and mouth, paw, and jab him.  One time after this play Marvin and Petro had a brief tug-of-war play with a rope.  Is the pack structure changing?  Do you see this as an improvement in Marvin caused by the influence of other dogs in the pack?

Well, yesterday was a really good day in my house.  When I arrived home from work, Marvin#%92s kennel was in near perfect order.  The poop was intact on the paper and Marvin did not step in it and smear it all over his kennel.  Cleanup was easy and I did not have to washdown Marvin.  His fleece throw was displaced out of his open crate and Sassy#%92s fleece throw was in Marvin#%92s kennel.  I guess they play tug-of-war through the chainlink.  Interesting though is that Marvin#%92s fleece throw is still intact from day 1.
 
Outside time was also good.  Petro is still a little hesitant but the group Drizzle, Sassy, Marvin, and Petro are interacting in play.  Blizzard sits on the sidelines and just watches.  The main activity is chasing Marvin, surrounding him, and mouth, nip, and paw at him.  I hope this continues.
 
I am continuing to vary which dogs go with Marvin during various outside time.  Marvin has settled down during his alone time in the kitchen and his alone time in the backyard.   Before Marvin would be very anxious, pace, hoot and holler, and also poop.  Now he just sits and watches the door.  Marvin poops exclusively in his kennel during the week but outside on the weekends.  Last night was the first time during the night that Marvin left the bedroom, went to the basement, and pooped in his kennel.
 
I am also continuing to try and desensitize Marvin when being left alone in his kennel for the day.   I first started off with pretending to leave and when Marvin would start his pacing and howling, I would voice “BED”.  I would then make myself visible and Marvin would be laying down in his bed.  I have been doing this now for a couple of weeks and it has turned into a game and fun time for Marvin, Sassy, and me.  At least now I leave in the morning on a very positive note.  When I actually leave I do park my car and go to the basement window and listen.  It is quiet.
 
I am still waiting for the dog literature to arrive and I am holding off my investigation of Doggie Boot Camp.  One of the participants of the forum gave a thumbs down to this method.  Other have cuationed me.  I know I should get Marvin into a training class but ACP Humane Society, who owns the dog, wants the adopters to do this for bonding reasons.  Even though Marvin is in his 6th week with me, I think he is still in the acclimation stage, still getting use to his new housing, people, and other dogs. I am also feeling better because I am starting to see that we are moving toward harmony in my home again, at a snails pace but we are moving.
 
ACP advertises and promotes Marvin for adoption.  There have not been any inquiries or anyone expressing interest in Marvin.  Sassy has had a lot of interest of late.  I have a feeling that Marvin is going to be with me for a long time so I may do the professional training on my own dime.

DPU -
Good news!!  Happy to hear Marvin is doing better!!  Perhaps he just had such a weird past that it is taking him sooo long to adjust.  Glad to hear that you're getting everything under control.  Training might be a good idea - or you can do a lot of it yourself.  either clicker train or just treat like crazy (Sammy is scared of the clicker so we didn't go that route).  Classes are good for the humans to learn, but I found Sammy learns a lot better with us at home, obviously.  We taught him sit, down, paw, hi-five, other paw, roll over in about 2 weeks.  He loves to practice and loves the attention.  If he wants something, he sits and automatically gives his paw now, the smart little bugger.  There are some good sites that talk of methods for training, some I like are
 
[linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com/clicker.htm]http://www.clickerlessons.com/clicker.htm[/link]  (you can adapt to not using a clicker)
[linkhttp://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm]http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm[/link] (same deal)
 
There are many others, but these links were handy.  Just for if you want to work with him without the cost..... and it does really give confidence to shy/SA dogs!
 
PS - I haven't updated any of my threads much before today, but knock on wood, Sammy is doing MUCH better as well!  I'm not sure what's doing it - the increase in meds, maybe, or he's just getting used to it - not sure - but he's been so good when we're away! Let's hope the good times keep rolling! []