Just curious....

Training devices are directly related to the capability of the trainer.  Sometimes a prong is needed by certain owners/trainers to manage a dogs behavior.  There is nothing wrong with that...it's just the reality of the situation.
 
Although they are a pain based training device they are not inhumane, as long as the handler is educated and evenhanded.

I had never owned german shepherds.  We'd had a mix, but he was a laid back, easy going guy.  DH grew up with gsds.  When my cockers started going to the bridge I thought it only fair that HE have the dog he had wanted for so long.  Enter Thor, and oh,yeah, Sheba too because it was love at first sight with her.
 
We started off religiously walking.  Then life got in the way.  A combination of life altering things happened and the dogs getting walked daily didn't happen.  We got a halti for Thor and it worked incredibly well, so got one for Sheba too.  Then we moved and I stayed behind to finish my degree and Thor didn't get so much as a single walk for a month.  Fast forward to the next walk and Thor had turned into a heathen...a 93 lb pulling machine who would all but stand on his head to get the halti off.  I worked my rear off with him, diligently worked every suggestion I got and we still couldn't walk him.  Now I'm 5'4" with compromised upper body strength from a number of surgeries.  I couldn't handle him. DH is 6' and HE couldn't handle Thor.  It became find a tool that will work or stop walking the dog.  The prong was a godsend.  Now I did not just go out and buy a prong and slap in on and start jerking the lead.  I put one on ME, walked around the store with the trainer BEHIND me using it correctly....and a couple times incorrectly so I would KNOW what it felt like.  She taught me to use a prong, using me as the dog and that was great.  When I put it on Thor, we kept him on a short lead so there was no chance of him lunging to the end of the lead and hurting himself.  He learned VERY quickly that HE was the one causing his discomfort by pulling and the pulling stopped.  For a very long time he "needed" to wear the prong without a lead on it to remember leash manners, but now it's gathering dust.
 
I also used a prong on a younger boy who was just a mass of quivering excitement and also pulled like a demon.  With Shadow it wasn't being headstrong like it was with Thor...with Shadow, he's kind of like a hyperactive kid....like a car with no brakes.
 
A prong shouldn't be some cruel devise of torture.  A prong SHOULD be a safe and humane way of teaching your dog leash manners when all else fails.  But it is a TOOL and should be used as a tool, and then put away when it's not needed.  And as with all tools, the user has to know what they are doing.

The prongs just look barbaric [] but they really aren't. Next time you're in a pet store, check them out.  The prongs aren't sharp - they're blunt.  They don't really *stick* the dog, they're just uncomfortable when the dog pulls - so after the first couple of times, the dog stops pulling. Max is only about 65 lbs. but he was a world class puller.  Not any more - although every now and then he still takes the occasional lunge at a squirrel.

Joyce

I'm a new prong collar owner as well.  My dog is only 35 lbs so I bought one of the smaller prongs and it worked immediately. TOnite I'm returning the harness and gentle lead I had just purchased the week before.  I'm recommending it to my friends who have dogs. 

Waxen the prong is not necessarily the right tool in most situations.  I would refrain from recommending it to your friends.  I would hate for the prong to be used on the wrong dog, and it be traumatized forever. 

Shouldn't have said it the way I said it.  I'm referring to friends who have problems with their dogs pulling on walks.  They all currently have the gentle lead and/or flat collar.  I've directed them to some websites that give directions on how to properly use the prong collar and when to use it.  
mrgmfoster - in what situations and which dogs would the prong collar be appropriate?
I do understand that the prong is a training tool and not to be used for the rest of the dogs days.  Eventually the dog should be able to walk on a flat collar leash with no pulling.

I find them most appropriate with hard, dominant dogs.  Also, sometimes (as Glenda mentioned above) it is the owner that needs it for the dog to be manageable. 
 
A more important question may be what dogs are they inappropriate for.  Dogs that show any fear, are shy, are dog/dog aggressive, dog/human aggressive, dogs with behavior problems, anxious dogs, soft dogs, .....I am sure there are others, but i have to get to work.

Mic clearly will have better answers than I, but, I wouldn't use one on Sheba who is very sensitive to me, and VERY reactive.  She is fearful and covers with bluff and bluster.  I wouldn't use it on an agressive dog or one that is dominant.
 
Thor was acting like a hardheaded mule, Shadow was just flat too excited to listen.  Since I started using drag lines I've not had leash issues at all.  I'm not sure why this happened, but we can go out with a flat collar now without any issues at all.  Maybe Mic can explain how THAT happened.

Glenda, using drag lines the way you did with your dogs is in essence, field training.  That is how we normally off leash train dogs.  The get accustomed to walk with in a certain range of you, and quickly learn to respond to your commands because you can enforce the command every single time.  As you know, consistency is key in training.

Thanks Mic!  Yes, the purpose was to work on recall without having to worry about them dashing off to the road.  Oddly, the drag lines USUALLY did just that...I would only pick them up when we were nearing the road.  And even then, I never had to reinforce my commands.....if I called, they came.  Wierd, huh?  They always kept them slack too when I was holding them.  I didn't realize that using drag lines would or could pay off with on lead manners, but it sure is nice that it did!
 
I see you said you WOULD use a prong on a dominant dog and I disagreed......Waxen?  Listen to Mic.  He knows what he's talking about and I just relate my personal experiences!  Stuff that works for me might not work for others.

Glenda, in some situations, you are right about the prong collar w/ a dominant dog.  I have seen a few dogs so dominant that when corrected with a prong collar the handler gets attacked.  Obviously this isn't a case where the prong worked out. 
 
I was more referring to dogs that are little to big of a bully and need to be reminded that they aren't always the most powerful  in the room.

My dog isn't any of what Mic said (show any fear, are shy, are dog/dog aggressive, dog/human aggressive, dogs with behavior problems, anxious dogs, soft dogs). It's him just being hardheaded any needing some quick corrections to get him in line.  I have a feeling you would know within the first 2 minutes of first utting on a prong collar and how the dog reacts to it, if the prong is appropriate or not for the dog. 

I think that just points out even more how important it is to proceed cautiously with deciding to use a prong.  SOME dominant dogs it's ok, some it isn't, so IF IN DOUBT, consult a professional FIRST.  And be taught how to use the darned thing FIRST.

Glenmar was that post at me?