Choker vs Harness

My dog is coming with a chock collar. owner says it is needed for training but it din't like them whatsoever. asol i'm not sure how she will act if i don't use it. she comes tomorrow, i don't want her to think she can get away eith everything.

mysterydog - if you put time, effort, and thought into training your dog, it won't think it can get away with everything.  If you aren't going to do that, well, you shouldn't really be getting a dog.  Choke chains are not NEEDED for training in the vast majority of circumstances.  If you don't use the choke with your new dog, you know how she will act?  Happy that she finally has an owner that doesn't feel the need to hurt her.  Do some research into positive reinforcement training, and try that in a serious and dedicated manner before trying anything else.
 
Kate

I've never seen a martingale not loosen.  Actually, the ones with the fabric rings can be somewhat slow, but the ones with chain rings are very quick to release.  They're also really easy to fit.  I've used something along the line of the limited slip collar, but it was pretty beaten up, so it didn't release quite right.  It was put on the dog correctly, I am sure of that.  Whatever you decide to use, make sure to keep it in good condition. 

What sort of behavior is he showing that makes you say he's "frightened"?  Granted, I agree with the other comments about him avoiding a return visit from that nasty choke chain.  But I wonder what he's doing to show you he's frightened.

Thanks everyone for the advice. However, he doesn't drag me on the leash at all.  At first he wloudn't move on the leash without any prior reason (on my part) to denounce the leash.  I simply put it around his neck, and thought he would get comfortable with it.  He's come around since my thread posted, but he's still very frightened when I put the leash on him.  I know this b/c the tail goes straight down, he won't look me in the eye, andwe'd go from playing tug of war and happy dog, not engaging me and cowering.  I've got him to follow the end of the leash (granted its a positive step) but thats it.  As soon as he loses interest in the leash, he cowers again.  He'll sit and/or lay flat on his back and submit, (although very cute, but difficult to understand where to go next)  My best luck w/ this situation has been making the "leash training" a happy experience for him rather than a disciplinary one.  Becuase discipline is not something he lacks.  Very respectful to me, other dogs, and my belongings.  He has an extremely mild temperament.  He was around two maltese this weekend that would growl, snap, and bark at him, he barely noticed they were even there. (obviously making me happy for my future with him)

If I were you, I'd just let him wear the leash for days (attached to a buckle collar, not any kind of corrective collar) and let him drag it around and get used to it- you don't touch it during this phase. And work on getting him to do an off-leash heel using treats and toys-- just praise and reward for him walking near you for brief periods in a safe place. So now he knows he's supposed to walk with you, and leashes are no big deal, then try holding the end of leash while you practice your heel. Never try to drag the dog along with the leash, and never let the dog drag you along with the leash; both very rude behaviors. Think of it as a safety device only, not a mechanism to move your dog around.
 
Choke collars, even limited choke collars (martingales), are not a very useful tool. Dogs really don't care if they get steadily choked; these collars are supposed to be used always with a loose leash, and if the dog is "bad", then you are supposed to deliver a very hard jerk and release, something that takes a lot of skill to deliver. Dogs properly trained with choke collars routinely receive thousands of corrections and most end up with permanent trauma to their necks. Dogs improperly trained with choke collars (i.e. allowed to choke themselves) end up with damaged tracheas. There are better ways to train and control dogs.

Pittman with the pit.  Please read carefully.  I have a Great Dane.  I know the power you are dealing with...as well as the fear your dog is displaying.  Fear is a powerful motivator in a dog and leads to antisocial behaviors such as biting.  I know this for a fact...my scared, sweet Great Dane that cowers to my Maltese Dogs broke my friend's arm biting it because she was scared of her presence.  Needless to say, we have had to retrain this dog to fear no fear because WE are the pack leaders and will control the environment for her.
 
 You are allowing your dog to dictate the mood of your leash training and walks.  The 'good' behaviors he is showing around others are signs of a submissive dog.  However, fear can change his submission to an aggressive bite very quickly if he feels threatened enough.
 
Seriously, I recommend that you read Cesar Millan's book "Cesar's Way", watch his The Dog Whisperer show on National Geographic Channel.  Also he has a video out "People Training for Dogs".  He explains his behavior modification based on pack mentality and dogs interactions with humans.  It will not necessarily make a difference on what collar or leash you use with this kind of fearful dog...it will be your leadership role and your dog's acceptance of your position.
 
Good luck and God Bless.  Sarah...the animal magnet!

There are very good ways to boost confidence and gently establish yourself as leader (which is what a shy scared dog needs).  I hate to assume because tone is hard to read from a post, but you almost sound like he has a serious problem...

Also, you do not by any means have to overpower your fearful dog to establish this... wrong way to go about it IMO.
 
He even said the dog was very respectful and well behaved, just scared of a leash.  Lucy was the most timid scared dog Ive ver seen and she would let me get near her with the leash.  She has NEVER bitten anyone or even seemed like she was about to.  Not all scared dogs are that way.

I use an English Slip Martingale on my bird dogs and a prong for obedience class. The slip lead is used as a halter that, when tightened, presses the nerves under the dog's front legs.  When the dog is not pulling, it is very loose.  The prong collar work's OK, but especially my setter is still aware of the prongs even when it is loose (she stops and scratches at the collar).  A choker would be impossible to use on these girls.  

Rocco does show signs of shyness, however, I don't think it will escalate into anything I wouldn't be able to control.  He was raised in a pack,(bought from a showdog breeder) and he is learning his place in my "pack."   As much as I enjoy Cesar Milan and what he does for the animals on his show.  The techniques used are not in Rocco's best interest.  I tried some of what he does on the show, and Rocco only gets more confused and loses more trust in me.  In recent days I've attatched a leash to his collar and he's adjusting to it.  I also went out and bought hearts, and marrow bones.  He has been engaged in play since then.  In hindsight, Rocco's problem was only confidence, both in himself and his pack leader.  This has been a huge learning experience, for in the past I have only been around dominant dogs that need strict boundaries.  On another note, I want to start and clicker train him.  I'm familiar with the basics, but what do I use as a clicker?  Any insider tricks or what to start with?

I use a limited slip or martingale collar with Gracie because I didn't think she deserved/needed a choke chain. With breeds of dogs that have a big thick neck, buckle collars slip right off their heads. The martingale doesn't close enough to choke the dog, just enough that the collar won't come off. Martingales are used on sighthounds also, because of their thin, long heads. There are tons of types of martingales. I prefer the type without the chain because the chain made Gracie's neck black. Here are links to different types of martingales.

[linkhttp://www.dog.com/family.asp?SKW=div_05,DOG,choke&Category=Collars%20%26%20More]Limited Slip from Dog.com[/link]

[linkhttp://www.aroundthehounds.com/]Around The Hounds[/link] or [linkhttp://www.dogmalondon.com/]Dogma London[/link] for handmade custom sized martingales. These 2 places have some good manly patterns.

[linkhttp://www.blockydogs.com/]Blocky Dog Collars Dual Grip [/link] are limited slip. They are also hand made and you can get them custom embroidered.

I use good fitting harnesses on all the dogs in my dog school, including Landseers with 150lbs and more. I attach the leash on the ring in front, on the breast, and can walk any dog (including my own pitbull) with this.
I found that most dogs tend to pull on collars, including prongs (and I have yet to see a dog who doesn't get insensitive to a prong over time).
With a harness that has the leash attached in front the dog turns to you when starting to pull or jump forward, if fitted well.

I want to start and clicker train him. I'm familiar with the basics, but what do I use as a clicker?

 
Good for you for choosing to train with a motivational technique! []
You can find clickers, books, etc. on Karen Pryor's site, [linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link] (they have a trainer search, too).
If you want to see video of a clicker trained dog, go here: [linkhttp://www.clickertrainusa.com]www.clickertrainusa.com[/link].
And, for some helpful articles, [linkhttp://www.clickersolutions.com]www.clickersolutions.com[/link].
 

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that a prong was a training tool and you only needed to use it short term to teach the dog NOT to pull??  I used one with Thor for a few months, he's 93 lbs, and he walks just fine on a flat collar now.  He didn't ever have the chance to become insensitive to it.....

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that a prong was a training tool and you only needed to use it short term to teach the dog NOT to pull??  I used one with Thor for a few months, he's 93 lbs, and he walks just fine on a flat collar now.  He didn't ever have the chance to become insensitive to it.....

That's not how people use it normally. Most people use it for more than a couple of weeks, which is when skin starts to thicken and become less sensitive to the prongs.
Though I have to say that the idea of a dog that loves walking on leash because it has been positively reinforced appeals all in all about 1000 times more to me than that of a dog who has learned that a collar/ leash can hurt. I have yet to meet a dog who needs to be disciplined to walk on the leash instead of positively trained to like it and walk nicely. Also, as I said even the heavy weights can be lead on a front- attach harness without any problems. And I'm not Arnold Schwarzenegger with nothing but muscles.[]