Clicker = training???

It's -P

 
I meant to say that and was distracted. Sorry.
 

The thing about teaching incompatible behaviors, is that you are essentially writing a new impulse (or default) for your dog. How is the dog to learn to control his own impulses if you are constantly supplying him with new ones? What if, instead, you taught your dog how to work with you to manage his impulses rather than just give him the answers?

 
people seem very confused about this concept. With +R or -R the dog gets to make a choice. He really wants attention from Mom who just arrived home. He's excited and happy, and his first impulse is to go leaping around like an idiot in joy. Mom, however, is careful to never provide attention unless dog supresses his first impulse and instead sits politely. Dog controls self , makes a free choice, in order to get what dog wants. Dog will never lose his first impulse to leap around like an idiot when Mom comes home, he just controls it.
Free choice. Self control. You ARE working with the dog to help him control his impulses. You don't supply him with the new behavior, you just guide him towards understanding how to get what he wants.
 
Unless trained in self-control dogs operate at about the level of a toddler. See food, go directly to food, eat food. The concept of looking away from food in order to get food, or holding a sit-stay in order to earn food, is foreign to an untrained dog, and teaching these feats helps the dog learn self-control.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy
Mom, however, is careful to never provide attention unless dog supresses his first impulse and instead sits politely.

mudpuppy, I know that works really well for you, and a lot of other people.
I find, that with my dog, there are many ways for her to spend or control that energy, rather than just "supress" it. I let Ixa find her own ways: drink water, play bow and sing a little, sit, go in her house ... when I come home, she gets to choose from a number of very cool and appropriate options, of her own design! In fact her most common modification is to go take a spin in the back yard when she hears my car pull up - by the time I get to the door she's spent a good bit of excited energy and is ready for a "civilized" greeting!

"Action items” are suitable to cubicle quality task performance.Please don't "action item” sentient beings, whether they're your SO, dear dog, or nemesis in the office.

Knowledge (data recall) is the lowest order of intelligence. It uses the simplest cognitive skills of defining (quoting the dictionary), labeling, list-making, naming, and reproducing. In order to practice higher forms of intelligence, we must not simply recall and copy learned data, but also process it, manipulate it, differentiate, reconstruct, and even criticize and defend it! In short, we must ask questions and form conclusions (see Bloom's Taxonomy to see the hierarchy of cognitive development: [linkhttp://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html]http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html[/link] ). Since we're in a thread that discusses developing dogs to reach their highest potential, perhaps we should begin with the humans!

Yes, discussions about details (like R-/P-) *are* very tedious. But god is in the details, and so is the devil! Failing to take responsibility for this within any "methodology" you make or join, may find you waking up one morning, surprised and ashamed at the choices you've made. This seems to have happened to many self-proclaimed "crossover" people who now refer to the great guilt and anxiety they carry regarding their past "crimes.” I'm sympathetic, but here's the rub: mindlessly practicing a "traditional" method and eventually finding it to be distasteful should make you more suspicious of swallowing whole "methodologies", not less!



[blockquote]quote:

ORIGINAL: nfowler
(I'm a former professor of writing so I know exactly what you're saying about seminars, teaching, etc.) [/blockquote]


If that is so, then you should champion the value of Socratic dialogue, rather than argue against it.
 
Content Reinstated, with some exemptions.

Do we need the Socratic method here? Why? It's a clicker training section on the forum. What will a reader gain by the Socratic method being applied here? **Content Removed - Personal Attack**
 
deleted due to reference to edited post

**Content Removed - Refrencing Previously Deleted Content**

This is exactly why the content of my edited post had so much merit.

Lets please keep this thread on topic, non confrontational and all try to remember that we are grown ups.  Thanks.