Independent Thinking - CM revisited

Sounds like CM hits a raw nerve with many who have been practicing and training for years.  He arrives and does the celebrated tv show and kind of alters things that trainers are leaving behind...like what Chuffy just said. 
 
It is sad, because the need for people to approach a new dog that they have acquired with more sense as to what this dogs chemical, emotional, behavioral make-up is...should not be initially construed as...Man=Alpha,  Dog=lower pack member
 
I have just been seeing and hearing too many people that actually are believing that any problems encountered with their pooch has to do with YOU have to be Alpha.  It is out of control. The idea is getting delivered to them on the tv show and they are trying to carry it out at home, regardless that it states to not try this at home.  I mean what is it on tv for?

That is the problem that I have about the "us vs. them"...it is not about us, nor them, it is about the dogs. Spence said that his dog is not dead yet...well, I am not worried about Spence's dog, nor my dog, nor "our" dogs....it is the other dogs like MP and I mentioned that concerns me.

 My whole problem with CM is not about CM himself, but the publics perception of his methods.  The publics misuse of his methods... and I think we all should be concerned...not only us, but they should be concerned also...maybe even moreso. This is the part that I am not understanding.

One would think that we would hit common ground on this, instead we get the defense of they aren't doing it right (well, duh!)  It's not Ceasar's fault, (well duh!) these methods have been around for years.(well duh!)..and the whole gamut.  This is where the dog issues fly out the window and it becomes an issue about Ceasar himself.

And I can't understand that part either.

A trainers reputation, and defense of that reputation, should not come before the health and well being of the general dog population.

That would be the wrong part, the "ssshhh" is exactly for what Glenda uses the "eh eh", CM uses it to tell the dog to stop but is not that he is traying to control every move, he also does not care if the dog starts drinking a margarita instead as long the dog is not doing what he was not allowed to do, the exactly same thing as Glenda, the difference is that Glenda (i believe) tells the dog what to do instead while CM does not care at all

Huh? Sorry, you totally lost me! 

Ah well, as long as everyone can aggree as to the importance of training and socialization, I really don't think it matters who is doing what relative to some random TV celebrity.  I really don't mind CM at all, but like others have said, it's sort of off-putting when people are acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread when really all he's doing is using traditional methods of dog training and preaching basic common sense dog ownership on TV.  Yay...I guess.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

But for whatever reason you seem to want to compare me to CM and find me "guilty" of doing the same things he does.  Whatever floats your boat.  You can bet your bottom dollar however that the methods I use did NOT come from CM.  I've been doing what I do for many years.  Does it somehow seem to validate your idol that I use methods that you find remotely similar to his?  Have at it....feel validated.    But, also know that I have never claimed to be a professional trainer and that I'm the self proclaimed expert at nothing.  Big points for "your team".  Some old lady who's been dealing with dogs all her life says "eh eh" to prevent a behavior.  Wow!!  Another CM follower.  Not so much.

My perception does matter here, but since you are primarily baiting ME and have apparently chosen to respond to my PM on the forum, I'll simply let Personal Champ make the determination.

 
Geez Glenda, you need to breathe deep and relax [sm=coffee.gif], you are not "guilty" of anything, i dont know what you are using that word anyways, i never said that you toke that from CM, i said that you do the same as him and thats it, hey CM used treats a couple times before [], it seems that you dont want to be related to him at all and thats why you get offended, breaaaaaathe [sm=meditate.gif]
 

ORIGINAL: JM

but the publics perception of his methods.  The publics misuse of his methods

 
I agree 100% with you there, but there is nothing we can do to change those stupid people and not because of them we will give less credit to CM (i know you dont), just like i said before, should we dislike Bruce Lee just because a guy saw him on a movie and decided he could do the same agaist 5 people and got beat up? or is that guy's fault for thinking he could do the same without proper knowledge?

ORIGINAL: Personal Champ
Oh, and espencer - you and glenmar should just agree to disagree and let byegones be byegones.

 
espencer, did you not see this? Now, as some trainers would say, "Leave It!!".

ORIGINAL: Personal Champ

ORIGINAL: Personal Champ
Oh, and espencer - you and glenmar should just agree to disagree and let byegones be byegones.

espencer, did you not see this? Now, as some trainers would say, "Leave It!!".

 
No that won't work.  You have to use "shhhht" and poke him in the neck.  Then roll him on his back.

This is dismissal Spence...and not good enough for me..."just because" doesn't cut it when the general dog population is being effected.

That was my whole point.

Okay, here is the way I am looking at it.  I mentioned the 4 dogs, (3 owners)  MP mentioned 1...as being adversely effected.  You chimed in with mine is not dead yet.

So, we have 5 owners, 6 dogs.

So...This is telling me that 1 person out of 5 is getting it right.

 But more importantly....4 out of 5 are getting it wrong.

Truthfully, I wouldn't even count you, nor anyone who is a member of this board as being part of the general populace of dog owners anyway...that being said..we have 4 out of 4 getting it wrong.

Spence, these are not good odds.  Not good odds at all!

I agree 100% with you there, but there is nothing we can do to change those stupid people and not because of them we will give less credit to CM (i know you dont), just like i said before, should we dislike Bruce Lee just because a guy saw him on a movie and decided he could do the same agaist 5 people and got beat up? or is that guy's fault for thinking he could do the same without proper knowledge?

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

Then roll him on his back.

 
Thats why people hurt their dogs, because they think they have to roll them even for the minimal reason, if i'm flipping out and cussing then i would agree but only if you know what the person is doing and only as the last resort, it should not be used like daily underwear []
 

ORIGINAL: JM

This is dismissal Spence...and not good enough for me..."just because" doesn't cut it when the general dog population is being effected.

That was my whole point.

Okay, here is the way I am looking at it.  I mentioned the 4 dogs, (3 owners)  MP mentioned 1...as being adversely effected.  You chimed in with mine is not dead yet.

So, we have 5 owners, 6 dogs.

So...This is telling me that 1 person out of 5 is getting it right.

But more importantly....4 out of 5 are getting it wrong.

Truthfully, I wouldn't even count you, nor anyone who is a member of this board as being part of the general populace of dog owners anyway...that being said..we have 4 out of 4 getting it wrong.

Spence, these are not good odds.  Not good odds at all!

 
Well thats because we are discussing this on the clicker forum, if we do the same on the CM forum then the odds will change and people there will tell you that have seen the opposite because they have seen it themselves, my dog is one but i have help 2 or 3 friends doing the same and Angelique  has her own business so she can add even more, as you can see, we are only speculating here

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

Then roll him on his back.


Thats why people hurt their dogs, because they think they have to roll them even for the minimal reason, if i'm flipping out and cussing then i would agree but only if you know what the person is doing and only as the last resort, it should not be used like daily underwear

 
espencer are you calling yourself a dog?  You weren't listening at all to what PersonalChamp suggested.  So I suggested the "shhhht," the poke in the neck and THEN rolling YOU on your back.  I said nothing about a dog.  Perhaps you are paying too much attention to YOUR agenda and not enough to what is being said.

ORIGINAL: JM

This is dismissal Spence...and not good enough for me..."just because" doesn't cut it when the general dog population is being effected.

That was my whole point.

Okay, here is the way I am looking at it.  I mentioned the 4 dogs, (3 owners)  MP mentioned 1...as being adversely effected.  You chimed in with mine is not dead yet.

So, we have 5 owners, 6 dogs.

So...This is telling me that 1 person out of 5 is getting it right.

But more importantly....4 out of 5 are getting it wrong.

Truthfully, I wouldn't even count you, nor anyone who is a member of this board as being part of the general populace of dog owners anyway...that being said..we have 4 out of 4 getting it wrong.

Spence, these are not good odds.  Not good odds at all!

 
What happens to your odds when you add in my 30+ dogs that have lived with me.  I don't think generalized statements can be made about the general dog population based on a few number of experiences.  I would think that if one saw a wrong there would be an attempt to confirm that the wrong actually does exist and it is prevalent.  Getting somewhat actual accurate statistics on dogs is very frustrating for me because they do not exist.

Another point you are missing....You and Angelique are not part of the general populace of dog owners...none of us here are.

1/2 hour of tele watching (as the populace does) cannot be compared to the hours this bunch puts in concerning dog behavior.

Oh yeah...for sure there is an "us and them" Spence.  Us being people like you and I and Anne and MP BC Ed, DPU, Chuff, Jen and Glenda and Angelique and the rest who spend countless hours studying and  beating ourselves too death to get it right........and then we have "them"...

Those who see CM give a pop to the leash and just figure that their dog is more stubborn and needs a harder yank this go round.

Do you see where I am going with this?

I feel like I am not getting my point across....so I should probably give up.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes
No that won't work.  You have to use "shhhht" and poke him in the neck.  Then roll him on his back.

 
Hehe. Thanks for the humor. [sm=funnypost.gif]

ORIGINAL: Xerxes


espencer are you calling yourself a dog?  You weren't listening at all to what PersonalChamp suggested.  So I suggested the "shhhht," the poke in the neck and THEN rolling YOU on your back.  I said nothing about a dog.  Perhaps you are paying too much attention to YOUR agenda and not enough to what is being said.

**Content Removed**, i know exactly what you said and i'm playing your game, i know that you said nothing about a dog but your statement  just proves that you have misconceptions about the techniques, it just proves that if (and i know you wont) you were going to apply them then you will fall into that group of people that watch CM, think they know what to do in each situation, but they dont have any idea at all.

**Content Removed**

ORIGINAL: JM

Oh yeah...for sure there is an "us and them" Spence.  Us being people like you and I and Anne and MP BC Ed, DPU, Chuff, Jen and Glenda and Angelique and the rest who spend countless hours studying and  beating ourselves too death to get it right........and then we have "them"...

I feel like I am not getting my point across....so I should probably give up.

Hi JM,

There certainly is an "us" and "them".  I do not want to elevate myself to anything above the "average person”, JQP, or if you will the Common Joe.  To do so would blur the lines that I see as my role as a dog owner and that of the dog professionals.  I want, I expect, I demand more from the Behaviorist/Trainer/Specialist' in representing their methods rather than give misrepresentations and exaggerations of another method.  I have responsibilities as the dog caretaker and I believe that the majority of owners want what is best for their dog.  These divisions and disagreements lowers the proponent's credibility.  I give JQP more credit because I see myself as one.

Okay...so you have had 30 plus dogs in your care.  Out of those 30 plus dogs...which ones did not need you?  Which had good homes, caring and knowledgeable owners before they came to you?  How many out of 30 plus?

If I took in 30 some dogs, how many would I find without problems and such?  Why is it that ONE person finds himself caring for 30 dogs????

Where are the original owners?

So..what are the numbers there?  1 out of 30 who actually care enough to feed, house, train, love, and give a good home to ?

This really doesn't have much to do with CM, but more to do with the general population. So, forgive me for going off topic a bit

What happens to your odds when you add in my 30+ dogs that have lived with me.  I don't think generalized statements can be made about the general dog population based on a few number of experiences.