Stuck on the box

Have you tried just waiting for another behavior? Sometimes it takes a while but eventually the dog goes "hey why am I not getting a click?!" and does something new.

I admit that I haven't been following your training, JM! Sorry. What do you want them to learn to do? You want them to learn to touch things in the house? To push the box around?
 
Good point, Stardog--this is where teaching is hard fo rme. I have to just stand still and wait and see what they are thinking they should do next before an idea comes to me. After physically showing dogs how to do things, just being "still" is hard for me!

LOL yea I hadn't realized how much time I sometimes spend just standing waiting for a behavior until my mom commented on how "patient" I am with her dog during shaping. She was amazed by the results just waiting has though. []

In the beginning, Zeus went beserk on the box.  He did everything to it.  But now he wants to continue offerring me the paw thrash.  And he looks so pleased with himself...so I click instead of waiting.

 My fault, I know.  But, he does have a tendency to walk away and contemplate if he doesn't get a click.  And he is not all that food motivated, so I can't allow him to lose interest.

If the pom doesn't get a click...default down.

I have tried a new object...like a ball or another toy.  I get the nose touch from the pom, the paw thrash from Zeus on that object also.  Zeus already does the paw on anything I ask him.

Maybe I just don't know where to go from here.  Or I am trying to move too quickly. We started clicking in December.

I also have a problem with trying to show them things also.

I think it is a conflict within myself.  Clicking them for behaviors that they offer and enjoy, versus clicking them for behaviors I want.

I worry if I only click them for just what I want, then I am defeating the whole purpose. I can't allow them to lose confidence, nor turn clicking into something stressful. I don't know how to move forward and still maintain this delicate balance.

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/167
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/101.htm

Well, what I got from the last article that frustration is to be expected.  But...I am not sure that I want to go that route.

Anyway, I think I had a breakthrough w/the pom.  I have been wanting some paw action from him.  He has a stuffed animal that he beats up on a regular basis, so I throw it on the floor.  He goes into bows and curtseys and all sorts of things.  Pretty much ignores the animal.  Then he does his nose thing on the animal,  but no paw action.

Frustration and stress starts so I shut down the session with some of the commands that he knows really well.  Then we come back later and I see that I am going to get the same results..

So I put my foot on the animal and move it a bit.  He comes after it...as soon as he puts a paw on it...I c/t. Rinse repeat.  Then rinse and repeat some more.

 By the time the session was over, all I had to do w/tap my foot on it to get the paw action.

I think he got it...I got a "by crikey I'm a genius too" look.

Hopefully the evening session will go even better.

What about doing something external to encourage exploratory behaviors? like rubbing something good-smelling to get Zeus to nose things, or putting something interesting underneath a box flap to encourage "rooting"?

ORIGINAL: stardog85
LOL yea I hadn't realized how much time I sometimes spend just standing waiting for a behavior until my mom commented on how "patient" I am with her dog during shaping. She was amazed by the results just waiting has though. []

Yeah, it's funny to watch a clicker class, in which the students's eyes start to glaze over while the trainer is waiting for a behavior from a dog, [8D]. It's great training, but sure would make for bad TV!

Yeah...I see where you are coming from.  Good plan.

 I plan on tricking them to do the behaviors that I want instead of waiting them out. I can't get a behavior from a dog who is stuck in the down position staring at me.

 I thought that was a pretty good trick I pulled on the pom and paw problem this morning and plan to continue in that direction.

And with Zeus, I am wanting to get more nose action.  He has killer paw action but not much nose action going on.


I think I have it now.  But if anyone else has anything to add...I'm game.

ORIGINAL: Cita

What about doing something external to encourage exploratory behaviors? like rubbing something good-smelling to get Zeus to nose things, or putting something interesting underneath a box flap to encourage "rooting"?

ORIGINAL: JM

So I put my foot on the animal and move it a bit. He comes after it...as soon as he puts a paw on it...I c/t. Rinse repeat. Then rinse and repeat some more.

Sounds like getting yourself unstuck got the pom unstuck! [] How cool is that!?

To me that is the whole point.  The dogs do not have the problem as far as I am concerned.

It's me.  I am new at this and keep running into walls until I figure out which way to go.

Another thing to remember is that you can click for itty bitty behaviors to unstick dogs - look for eye or ear movement, lip licking, muscle twitch on another body part, etc. - anything other than the "stuck" behavior! I like ear and eye movement personally because you can shape it into tons of things.

I didn't think of the ear and eye thing. I'll remember that for next time.

 I did another session with the pom this evening and he definitely has it.  So now I have something to work with for awhile.

 

ORIGINAL: stardog85

Another thing to remember is that you can click for itty bitty behaviors to unstick dogs - look for eye or ear movement, lip licking, muscle twitch on another body part, etc. - anything other than the "stuck" behavior! I like ear and eye movement personally because you can shape it into tons of things.