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Punishment Has No Place

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  • espencer
    • Gold Top Dog
    espencer

    Posted : 4/6/2007 9:58:18 AM

    ORIGINAL: Chuffy


    Behaviourally speaking, Punishment is something that decreases the likelihood a behaviour will be repeated. 
    Ex: Owner comes home, puppy has peed on the carpet, she gets angry and rubs his nose in it to "teach him a lesson". 
    Done in anger, it's a form of retirbution and maybe it made her feel better momentarily because it relieved her frustration or what have you.  But did it "decrease the likelihood the behaviour would be repeated"?  Well, no, I don't think so.  So, therefore, technically speaking, it was not a punishment.  Right?  Another difference: Punishment (as I tried to point out and spiritdogs also emphasised) has no place in the teaching phase.  Treatment as described above has no place in training at all!!! 
     
    A body block is a correction.... for some people, some dogs and some situations it is an effective one.  It does exactly what it says on the tin; corrects the dogs action.  But it's NOT (IMO) a punishment.  It manages the dogs behaviour until you have taught him how to behave appropriately.

    I agree with the notion that punishments have no place in the teaching phase... corrections however DO (IMO).  See again Glenda's bite inhibition as a prime example.  Where the line becomes blurred and correction becomes punishment then it has no place in the teaching phase.  When a correction is applied inconsistently or in anger, then it no longer has a place in any phase of training.... it doesn't mean it has magically become "punishment" and therefore unacceptable, it just means it is a poor, ineffective and unkind technique.


     
    Well it seems that you understand everything right there [:D], the question would be, which corrections some people consider as punishment?
  • Chuffy
    • Gold Top Dog
    Chuffy

    Posted : 4/7/2007 8:12:55 AM

    Espence:  To me - One that decreases the likelihood that the action will be repeated.
     
    DPU:  If half of the people responding to the thread labour under one def. of a word and the rest under another none of the debate makes sense.  So while terms can be offputting and just jargon for some I find that at least it is uniform and everyone knows what everyone else means.  I just skim read the article again and it doesn't appear to define "punishment" - so who knows what kind of "punishment" we're all debating about......  I was guessing that it used "punishment" in the scientific context; that was another reason why I felt that the definition of this should be emphasised and why I used it as a basline for my argument.
  • Angelique
    • Gold Top Dog
    Angelique

    Posted : 4/9/2007 3:19:31 AM

    Here's an interesting article by Suzanne Clothier on this topic:
     
    [linkhttp://flyingdogpress.pposa.html]http://flyingdogpress.pposa.html[/link]
  • TinaK
    • Gold Top Dog
    TinaK

    Posted : 4/9/2007 10:23:58 AM


    ORIGINAL: Angelique

    Here's an interesting article by Suzanne Clothier on this topic:

    [linkhttp://flyingdogpress.pposa.html]http://flyingdogpress.pposa.html[/link]

    http://flyingdogpress.com/pposa.html ... typo [;)]
  • Angelique
    • Gold Top Dog
    Angelique

    Posted : 4/9/2007 10:35:00 AM

    Thanks Tina! I was just going to fix it when I saw your post. Your link is correct, so folks can just use that one. [;)]
     
    I need some coffee...[8D]