Dog Community

Aggression towards strangers, and many strangers coming in a few days...

Posted : 3/4/2007 1:30:14 AM

Cherokee is aggressive towards strangers. I know that. But I am Procrastinator of the Century, so here I am, all of four days before we have people she either doesn't know or doesn't like coming to stay at my house, not to mention many other people she won't remember and/or doesn't know who will be in town (cousin's wedding on the 9th) and at my house a lot..and I haven't done anything to get Cherokee ready to deal with these people, nor myself ready to help her with dealing with them...sigh.

Normally if people come over who Cherokee doesn't know, she spends a few minutes in my room, and then if I'm comfortable with the person, I let her out, and tell the person don't look at her, touch her, talk to her, etc. Sometimes she's okay, sometimes she isn't. Not the best way to deal with this, I know. This approach however is not appropriate in dealing with groups of people, and I should have gotten started with behavioral clicker training a very long while ago...but like I said, procrastinator of the century, and I didn't.

So. Four days. What to do? I'm thinking I'll put her in a head collar, and keep her tethered to me while many people are here. That way, she's not isolated in my bedroom, nor is she able to bark viciously or lunge at anyone (she's still never bitten anyone, but she sure has scared a lot of people!). I'd like to get out the clicker and treats so as to make the situation better, and not just manage it, since I don't get opportunities often to train her around people I know and she doesn't. I have Click to Calm, and it's a nice book, but it takes everything sooo sloooooow and I have four days til people start arriving, and 2 weeks max til they leave. All I really want to know is when to click, what to do when she's barking viciously, what to ask her for, what I can do within the next few days to get ready, things like that.

I have at least two cousins staying here. Teenagers. 16 year old boy, 17 year old girl. The girl's fine, can and will follow instructions, and Cherokee has liked her fine in the past (but hasn't seen her in 2-3 years). The boy is another story. He's autistic, oppositional, tall, deep-voiced, and she never liked him (luckily he's only coming for four days). Since he's staying here, Cherokee will obviously need to be with me and under control at all times, I just really don't want to lock her in my room for four days, so need suggestions on how to deal with that.

So..yeah, any advice is much appreciated it. Go ahead and tell me that I should have dealt with this a long time ago. I know it. But any last minute ideas? Thank you!!

mrv

Posted : 3/4/2007 8:17:13 AM

Management: board her. It will be better for all involved, you could even potentially do a day time board and an evening pick up in some cases. You do not have time to get this behavior under control and I can guarentee, someone will screw up. You dont want her practicing bad behaviors and you dont want anyone hurt. Although you will miss her, this is far less stressful.

J M

Posted : 3/4/2007 8:27:20 AM

I am wondering if you could use this as an opportunity to desensitize your dog to people.

It would take a major plan, and first and foremost, your focus would have to be on the dog.

on her stress levels and such. She may prefer the bedroom most of the time.

griffinej5

Posted : 3/4/2007 9:02:03 AM

I'm going to agree with mrv and say board her if you can still get her in somewhere, or maybe you can leave her in daycare for the days. I've done that with Max before when someone coming wouldn't be comfortable, and he doesn't like strange people either. Yeah, I was upset to have my dog away for the day, but he was much happier than if he were at home. Myself and the person who wasn't comfortable around dogs also didn't have to worry about any what ifs either. I think in the end, you, the dog, and your guests, will be much happier if you can find a place to take her, at least part of the time, while they are there.

Chuffy

Posted : 3/4/2007 9:38:51 AM

BOARD BOARD BOARD!!

IMO this is NOT a good time to desensitise her to people. It would be throwing her in at the deep end to the extreme and her stress levels would be through the roof - not conducive to learning. With many visitors you will not be able to keep your focus on the dog and manage her properly to prevent her practising bad bhvrs, not to mention keeping the visitors under control and not screwing up whatever programme you put in place. (****People are harder to train than dogs!!!!!****) You'd just be setting youself up for failure on this one. Board.

Stacita

Posted : 3/4/2007 10:25:43 AM

I agree with the others. The first concern must be safety and Cherokee isn't ready to handle this situation. If you can't board her, keep her in your room and arrange for times for all of the other people to be out of the house.

J M

Posted : 3/4/2007 10:26:09 AM

How can you leave a stranger aggressive dog with strangers? As in boarding or daycare? Wouldn't strangers have to feed, water, handle, walk, and clean up after the dog?

Maybe if the OP found a place that would allow her to come in and do this sort of stuff?

snownose

Posted : 3/4/2007 10:51:23 AM

How can you leave a stranger aggressive dog with strangers? As in boarding or daycare? Wouldn't strangers have to feed, water, handle, walk, and clean up after the dog?

Maybe if the OP found a place that would allow her to come in and do this sort of stuff?

That is a good point. My Husky/ Mal. was ruined in a boarding situation, and that was the vet no less, to this day he hates to go to the vet.

mrv

Posted : 3/4/2007 10:51:25 AM

Boarding kennel staff are far better equipped to deal with a dog with aggressive behavior than family and friends. I will also say from personal experience (my own fear aggressive gsd and working with other dogs), that dog behavior in a kennel situation is significantly different than at home. I would be willing to wager that in a good kennel, she will actually have more opportunity to work on behavior than with the family in this situation.

nfowler

Posted : 3/4/2007 11:50:24 AM

I have a shy boy myself, and though he's come a LONG way, it's too much for him to have to be outgoing and totally reliable when there is so much going on. Trust me--the second you go to get another roll of TP for company something will happen. As prepared as you are, things go wrong.

If you don't board her, which is my first choice for Cherokee (I hear you, JM, I do, but with so much going on, it'll only be snippets of seeing people and under time constraints, total chaotic activity, etc., which will not create/make for a good outcome and attitude toward stranger/people for Cherokee), then make sure you have a crate with blankets over it (to keep it quiet) and total control over people going into that room.

All it takes is one snap that connects to somebody's skin and the weekend and all the wam fuzzies around relatives will be shot.

ETA--your job, too, is to be Cherokee's advocate, to keep her safe, to ensure that nothing happens. Board her. Honestly. Board her. She won't hear gobs of noise, she won't be stressed with people talking loud, wandering in and out, your attention and energy being diverted, etc. She'll hate being boarded, but she'll survive and be oh so glad to come home again!

nfowler

Posted : 3/4/2007 11:57:34 AM

One more comment on Parson's Click to Calm. Rehabbing a reactive dog is such sloooooow work. It really is. It is tedious, time-consuming, and it often feels like you're not making progress. Both Parsons and the OP are right on about that--it takes such a long time.

And when you do make some progress, they either slip back for a bit or they pick up some new crappy behavior that needs to be addressed.

This is not the weekend to rush a click-for-calm moment or to flood Cherokee. It can backfire badly. Boarding sounds cruel, but really, I don't see any backfiring going on there like I would for people coming in and out of the house and Cherokee being expected to behave herself (she won't have to behave herself at the kennel--she can snap, scream, raise her hackles, and they'll all be prepared).

The ulitmate goal is for Cherokee to be reliable at home. That's where it all counts. And she can be--someday. Just not this weekend.

spiritdogs

Posted : 3/4/2007 12:33:55 PM

As a trainer, I can tell you that shoving her into the midst of all that chaos will set her back and, possibly, get her a bite history, too.
mrv is quite correct that the best solution is to board her. fisher's point about this kind of training being slow is quite well taken. And, I would add, the training begins with the DOG's comfort level, and adds the distractions (strangers) very slowly. In fact, an undersocialized or protective dog may never be reliable enough to just let anyone in to the home willy nilly. But, certainly in this case, where there will be lots of non-dog savvy people about, my advice would be to board her, or at least crate or contain her in an out of the way area.

juneaudog

Posted : 3/4/2007 3:42:09 PM

That is a good point. My Husky/ Mal. was ruined in a boarding situation, and that was the vet no less, to this day he hates to go to the vet.

Snownose, could you elaborate on what you meant by "ruined in a boarding situation"?

We've sent our pup to the kennel for the weekend as we are both out of town (for different reasons). It pains me to have to do it but we had no choice in this case ...

griffinej5

Posted : 3/4/2007 4:01:56 PM

Max is stranger aggressive, as in, he has actually bitten someone strange in our house. We did let them in, but the dog didn't know it. I can manage it, and introduce him to the people, if I know they are coming. In this case though, my dad told me the guy was coming as he pulled into our street. I had snuck out of bed and left Max there that morning so I could mop the kitchen floor. I couldn't not go downstairs, because I wasn't dressed, and Max hadn't been out. I thought I could get down there and get dressed, get Max on the leash, then bring him up, but as I tried to get down (there is a gate to the basement) he edged past me and came up. He knew there was a strange person in the house. In the dog's opinion, he was doing the right thing, he was protecting against an intruder. Had I known this guy was coming, I could have gotten Max on leash and let him know we had let this person in.
Even though Max would bite an intruder in our home, he's been fine at daycare, and he has never bitten any strange people there. He will also bark at strange people outside the house, but he hasn't bitten any (and he could have once, because he broke off the leash and chased someone). Home is a totally different situation. That's his territory they're intruding on.

chelsea_b

Posted : 3/4/2007 4:45:50 PM

Oh geesh, I was so not expecting to be told to board her. Maybe it should be, but that's not an option. I don't understand. If I was going to stick her in a cage surrounded by strange people and strange dogs for that time, I might as well just keep her in my room. She's not crate trained, and is not any more comfortable with strangers out of my home than in, so I think boarding her would give her a bite record way more easily then staying home.

Honestly, as much as I hate to admit this, I've been managing this behavior for 7 years. She's never bitten anyone. She obviously has an extremely high bite threshold, because either by my stupidity or others', she has been in situations many times where I'm now impressed that she didn't bite.

She's never been away from me or my family. I've never even had a friend look after her while I go out of town. Either a family member (one of my sisters or my mother) takes care of her, she comes with me, or I don't go anywhere.

I do appreciate the advice, but I'm not boarding her. Guess she'll just stay in my room the whole time.

Thanks.