Hitting dogs: is it OK?

I wouldn't cooperate with anyone who sat on me

 
I would, and did. In 6th grade, I got in a fight with a guy much bigger than me and he sat on me. I gave up.
 
As for trust, when I was growing, I trusted my mother. I trusted we would get a spanking if we continued to misbehave and I trusted the spankings would continue until we behaved. In fact, the whole point of the discipline I received as a child was that you could trust that the punishment would be neverending as long as the misbehavior was neverending. Magically, when we started behaving, the spankings went away. Not that every punishment was a spanking. Sometimes, it was hard physical labor, grounding, lectures. Believe it or not, the idea is based on the pleasure principle. Beings seek that which is pleasurable and avoid that which is not pleasurable. So, as a kid seeking the pleasure of fun and freedom, the aversion of punishment is to show the direction we don't want to go. If we wanted to avoid the punishment and enjoy the privileges of freedom, we simply had to avoid the behavior that brings punishment.
 
 
 

Personally, I wonder what it was about your dad's handling of the dog from square one that led to her attitude about him.  Some dogs, hybrid or not, take only so much of human machismo (or ineffectiveness) and eventually use aggression to thwart it (or retain status).  I think your dad was lucky, too.  

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

I think your dad was lucky, too.  

Very, facial transplants were not even tried 13 years ago []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Personally, I wonder what it was about your dad's handling of the dog from square one that led to her attitude about him.  Some dogs, hybrid or not, take only so much of human machismo (or ineffectiveness) and eventually use aggression to thwart it (or retain status).  I think your dad was lucky, too.  

In this instance I don't think it was the old man himself.  The dog had a great dislike of men in general.  She loved children and doted on them regardless of gender, was happy enough with women, and immediately suspicious of men.  I think it would have been a much larger problem if we hadn't been living so far off the beaten path at the time.

And I dunno about 'lucky'....  I think they both did good to survive each other.  It was the SCARIEST thing in the world to hear!  I doubt he used his bare hands and he has scars from wrists to shoulders, still.  The man was about 26 at the time and in incredible physical condition (sailor) or it would have escalated even further.  I don't really like to think about ANYONE purposefully hitting an animal with a stick or a board or whatever the case was, but I have always wondered if it was necessary.  I honestly can't think of another way, but was hoping that was just my lack of knowledge.

Are hybrids really so different that a confrontation which calls for the human taking such aggressive action is common?  A wolf is a wolf and a dog is a dog, but in almost every single regard she was normal family dog.  You-know-whose [] pharoah hounds seem more wild than she did. 

ORIGINAL: Kiche

but I have always wondered if it was necessary.  I honestly can't think of another way, but was hoping that was just my lack of knowledge.

It wast necessary, there is tons of techniques to help a dog like that, the dog knew from the beginning when someone didnt like him, would you be friendly to someone that feels that same way about you? if you add the abusive past thats just an accident waiting to happen, The guy used human psychology on a dog instead of dog's pysichology, he just acted like "ok let's solve our differences outside" just like any sailor would say to another, in the dog's world is not that way, there is many ways to win the dog's confidence with out violence and many techniques to free the dog out of those fears about men

Maybe I was reading the story wrong, but I didn't catch the parts where the father didn't like the hybrid or the hybrid had an abusive past.

Maybe those parts were included and I didn't read well, or maybe they weren't included but were still true. Regardless, I think we have to be careful about making assumptions since it does sound like a rather unusual situation.

I'm trying not to be judgmental but I'm having a hard time with a man, a father, who would have a wolf hybrid at all.  But, OK, some can be fine.  But, then I'm lost again when he doesn't just remove the dog from the property but instead beats it (regardless of reasons why) while a child listens??? 

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: Kiche

but I have always wondered if it was necessary.  I honestly can't think of another way, but was hoping that was just my lack of knowledge.

It wast necessary, there is tons of techniques to help a dog like that, the dog knew from the beginning when someone didnt like him, would you be friendly to someone that feels that same way about you? if you add the abusive past thats just an accident waiting to happen, The guy used human psychology on a dog instead of dog's pysichology, he just acted like "ok let's solve our differences outside" just like any sailor would say to another, in the dog's world is not that way, there is many ways to win the dog's confidence with out violence and many techniques to free the dog out of those fears about men

With all due respect....  The animal was not unliked or it never would have been adopted in the first place.  Like a lot of younger men who are beginning a family in-the-middle-of-nowhere, he worked very hard, did not make a lot, and I simply cannot see him paying to purchase and care for ANY animal that he did not like and see as a benefit to his family.   Likewise, I cannot see my stepmother choosing an animal that her husband disliked.  I apologize if this is offensive, but although I applaud your zealous interest in canine psychology I think you will get better results working with the ingrediants that you have than you will by adding them through conjecture.  I am not trying to be rude, just cautionary.  An impressionable person may take your advice at face value and make a costly mistake; you never know.  []

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I'm trying not to be judgmental but I'm having a hard time with a man, a father, who would have a wolf hybrid at all.  But, OK, some can be fine.  But, then I'm lost again when he doesn't just remove the dog from the property but instead beats it (regardless of reasons why) while a child listens??? 

[color="#000000"]It's all right, no offense taken.  I mentioned that in part but I can expand on it.  When the animal was acquired they were unaware that she was a hybrid.  She was still a juvenile, they were not as cautious and picky as I am when adopting from shelters [] and the shelter itself offered no information about her past.   In my experience, even to this day, animal shelters in the way-north, secluded areas are somewhat like the 'fast food' of animal processing.  You fill out an app that asks your name, address, reason for wanting the dog, and if your landlord has agreed provided that you're renting.  App is handed to shelter employee with adoption fee, leash is handed to new owner.  Same day.  Now. 

When she grew up and it became obvious what she was, there was no reason for him 'as a father' to get rid of her.  She didn't destroy the house, she was an angel with the kids.  In fact, if it hadn't been for her we wouldn't have been allowed to play outside past the driveway.  With her, we could go anywhere--you can't hire a better companion to watch over your children than a dedicated canine, something we all know.  [] 

The 'regardless of why' part can't be discarded.  Not everyone is the same, but most men I know switch into a 'fight' mode when someone/thing hurts them.  I'm not saying that that's right, I'm saying that the dog made a very real, undeniable challenge, and he answered it immediately, no doubt in anger.  He's got a wolf-dog trying to tell him she's the boss, and he's trying to tell her HE'S the boss, and I just bet the last thing he had time to think about was how many people were able to hear him through the garage. 

There's no fallicy in this, or reason for there to be-- I've been told that police officers and service men who handle their K-9 unit partners are generally challenged by the dog at some point in the first few years of their relationship, and that it is often a very physical challenge like the one I presented.  I was hoping to hear from someone who had dealt with similar, and how.  
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ORIGINAL: Kiche

With all due respect....  The animal was not unliked or it never would have been adopted in the first place.  Like a lot of younger men who are beginning a family in-the-middle-of-nowhere, he worked very hard, did not make a lot, and I simply cannot see him paying to purchase and care for ANY animal that he did not like and see as a benefit to his family.   Likewise, I cannot see my stepmother choosing an animal that her husband disliked.  I apologize if this is offensive, but although I applaud your zealous interest in canine psychology I think you will get better results working with the ingrediants that you have than you will by adding them through conjecture.  I am not trying to be rude, just cautionary.  An impressionable person may take your advice at face value and make a costly mistake; you never know.  []

I'm sorry i read the "hate" part wrong, it sounds to me like the dog was having a little bit of resource guarding, the dog was thinking that she was "owning" the family (mother and children) like you said, i think the guys were not as much the problem as the mother and the children, they needed to let the dog know they were not owned by the dog, a simple NILIF was able to help the dog realize it, after that they could be working on her problem against men

ORIGINAL: espencer

I'm sorry i read the "hate" part wrong, it sounds to me like the dog was having a little bit of resource guarding, the dog was thinking that she was "owning" the family (mother and children) like you said, i think the guys were not as much the problem as the mother and the children, they needed to let the dog know they were not owned by the dog, a simple NILIF was able to help the dog realize it, after that they could be working on her problem against men

Please forgive my ignorance, I must need a little bit more explanation.  NILF would interfere with the dog's attacks/protecting behavior?  Her distrust of men wasn't limited to men in the family, and I've always viewed her behavior as her auto-viewing men as threats to women and children, thus she fought/warded off 'bad' and saved 'good.'  I've since read a lot about hybrids retaining a lot of the 'protect the young at all costs' mentality...  I don't understand how to associate NILF with these behaviors.

Dog has blue eyes and appears to be some kind of husky-mix, is rather young, and happens to be pregnant. She is on the hot-list for being destroyed, since nobody wants to adopt a pregnant bitch.

 
Leaving the behavioral question aside, I have a serious problem with adopting out a pregnant bitch. It perpetuates the over population problem.

I have a serious problem with adopting out a pregnant bitch. It perpetuates the over population problem.

Wait, what? Should pregnant strays be euthanized right off the bat then?

Wait, what? Should pregnant strays be euthanized right off the bat then?

No, spayed.