Dog Community

I ruined our night with the clicker! - UPDATE

Posted : 1/3/2007 4:34:04 PM

OK, I guess the thread title is only half true. I ruined Blitz's night. I got a clicker, which I'd been dying to try since all of you are pushing clicker training. [

] Sooooo, I tried "charging" the clicker with both dogs, separately.

BLITZ
Blitz, my drivey, doggy class loving, please-teach-me-teach-me-teach-me dog was not feelin' it. I got some treats he likes, clicked and gave him one. First click: he sort of grimaced and took the treat. Second click: grimaced, paused, took treat. Third Click: looked at the treat, turned and slunk out of the room with his tail between his legs. Unreal! For the rest of the night, even a look from me sent Blitz trotting out of the room tail tucked. I felt terrible! [

]

CUMA
My lazy oaf-of-a-dog who has never cared to learn anything beyond the basics was up next (sooner than I expected because my usual training partner was hiding in his crate). Cuma was in no way worried about the "click" and a few click-treats later, he was starting to perk up at the sound. We moved on to "look" and "stand" and he was really working for that click. This dog works for NOTHING.

I was going to use the clicker to teach Blitz advanced moves, but maybe I'll just use it to bring Cuma up to speed. I was totally baffled by my little guy's reaction. I don't think of him as being sound sensitive. He didn't even bat an eye at all the strange dogs and people at his first agility trial. I guess with him, I'll just continue to mark with "Yes!" I'm disappointed that I can't use this method with my little doggy genius. [>:]

Any ideas? Should I try with an even better treat, like real meat (couldn't give them anything too yummy last night because they had a bit of diarrhea on our walk)?

brookcove

Posted : 1/3/2007 6:18:40 PM

It's not the dog or the treats, it's the clicker. Is Blitz the Dutch Shepherd looking dog in your sig? I find a surprising number of BCs are scared of the sound of the clicker. You can put a piece of tape over the metal to soften the noise, or (what I do) use the top off a Snapple bottle or something similiar, instead. Push the little "Do not use if seal is popped" button on the top and it will make a less scary, but still distinctive, noise.

The same thing happened to me with a rescue last summer. [8|] She came around fast, though, no problem.

Scout in Canada

Posted : 1/4/2007 7:08:25 AM

BLITZ
Blitz, my drivey, doggy class loving, please-teach-me-teach-me-teach-me dog was not feelin' it. I got some treats he likes, clicked and gave him one. First click: he sort of grimaced and took the treat. Second click: grimaced, paused, took treat. Third Click: looked at the treat, turned and slunk out of the room with his tail between his legs. Unreal! For the rest of the night, even a look from me sent Blitz trotting out of the room tail tucked. I felt terrible!

The same thing happened to me!! I felt so guilty, she wouldn't even look at me for hours. It was awful... I have to admit I never even tried using a bottle top because I didn't want a repeat of this night. But, it is really worth a try. I use the word "YES" as my "click", but truly a click is the best marker.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/4/2007 7:28:55 AM

Try an i-click and muffle it with a piece of cloth, or hold it behind your back. My hound was so afraid of the clicker at first, that he left the room without taking any treats. I had to toss roast beef into the living room! [

]
The fear usually goes away in a short while, because the dog is being classically conditioned to the idea that the click results in something really good, namely a good treat. Up the ante a bit if you have been using prepared, or boring (sorry [

]) treats. Use something he never gets otherwise, like roast beef, chicken, cheese, or liverwurst (tiny pieces, it's very rich -but many dogs go gaga over it).
Don't worry - even if you have to click from the other room and toss the treat, he will very likely soon view it as he does the sound of the can opener, or the refrigerator door LOL.

Katie

Posted : 1/4/2007 11:15:23 AM

Thanks for the advice gals!

Becca - Yes, Blitz is the crazy little Dutchie-like dog in my sig. I love the idea of a Snapple lid. Never would have thought of that.

Ashlee - Its not a good feeling is it? [&:] I was only trying to be a good owner and spend some time with the little monster, not scare him away from me.

Anne - I'll up the ante and try some ham tonight. I can just picture me chucking greasy meat accross my little apartment. [

] Hey, whatever it takes!

Trev El

Posted : 1/10/2007 11:52:31 AM

Just use your voice as a marker instead of a clicker.

NicoleS

Posted : 1/10/2007 11:58:12 AM

Yep, Sammy does the same thing - look scared and slink out of the room with his tail between his legs and won't come near me or food for a bit. we're still working on it, I've been kinda looking at other clickers since this one is REALLY loud (but it was only $1 so I thought lets try it). I used cheese, peanut butter, canned dog food cut into chunks (which he only gets as a "treat" occassionally but loves it) pieces of hot dog and then I gave up for now.

you're not alone! lots of dogs are scared of the sound...... I think I'm going to try the jar lid thing with the pop up next and see how that goes.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/10/2007 12:07:51 PM

ORIGINAL: Trevell

Just use your voice as a marker instead of a clicker.

While it works, it really isn't the same as a constant noise that never has emotion in it. You can muffle the click, hold the clicker behind your back, or use an i-click, or even one of the new ones that "pings", etc.

Katie

Posted : 1/18/2007 11:50:17 AM

Well thanks to i-dog member suggestions, Blitz is progressing with the clicker! [

]

er Anne's advice, I began tossing treats to Blitz after clicking, since he didn't want to be anywhere near the clicker initially. He has been hearing the click when I work with Cuma, and he's also been hearing other handler's clicking in agility class, aka his favorite place on the planet.

Guess what? He no longer balks at the sound! Last night I was working with both dogs. At first I could see Blitz looking at Cuma after I would click, to gage his reaction. Upon seeing that Cuma was in no way disturbed by clicks, and was in fact excited by them, Blitz abandoned the last of his skepticism! He really got into our clicker session and was clearly enjoying himself. AND... he finally got "rollover"! Yay! He had been struggling with this, not understanding the exact behavior I wanted. Last night I clicked once as soon as he completed a correct "rollover" and I could tell he was excited to have figured it out. Soon he was offering up the behavior repeatedly. Clicker success, at last! [

][

]

tashakota

Posted : 1/18/2007 12:20:40 PM

Yay! I was going to say that my little guy Kota was that way with the clicker at first. The louder ones bother him but he knows it means treats. The cheap clickers do soften with use. I pulled out a new one the other day to have one in another room of the house and when I clicked it the first time for Kota, he flinched but didn't run away. So keep that in mind too. I hid it behind my back the next couple of times but then he was fine.

redlegos

Posted : 1/20/2007 1:07:28 AM

Sorry but can someone help me out, what in the world is a clicker?

Chuffy

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:32:50 AM

It's a small plastic box which you can press to make a distinct "Click" sound.

After the dog has had click-treat, click-treat, click-treat several times, he links the two inextricably together. He should now get a treat every time he hears that "click".

The click can now be used to mark the precise behaviour you want and "bridge" it to the treat the dog gets for doing it. Like a way of saying "Yes! That's exactly right, that's exactly what has earned you this treat!"

It allows you to be super accurate with timing and it always sounds the same no matter who uses it or what mood they are in. The clicker is used only to capture or shape new behaviours and is phased out after that, the same way you would if you were just using treats, eventually only click-treating for the very best responses.

Not to hijack the thread but... It's weird, but I've found once a dog has started learning clicker training, he works harder for the click than he used to for the treat on it's own? Has anyone else found this?

Bloodhound

Posted : 1/21/2007 2:08:52 PM

nice idea using a snapple lid as a clicker.

jones

Posted : 1/21/2007 3:10:16 PM

Not to hijack the thread but... It's weird, but I've found once a dog has started learning clicker training, he works harder for the click than he used to for the treat on it's own? Has anyone else found this?

Yes I think so... if I bring out a bit of food Russell will sit or maybe lie down and anxiously await the treat - he will do whatever ask to get it but basically do as little as required. But if I bring out the clicker he gets very excited and starts offering behaviors right off the bat regardless of whether there's any food showing. And I clicker train with boring old kibble! But there's something about it (clicker training) that he finds very exciting and engaging.

houndlove

Posted : 1/21/2007 3:18:10 PM

Yes, I've found that too. I actually have to start fading the clicker before I fade the treats because they will definatley work harder when the clicker is out than when there are just treats to be had. So first I fade the clicker but keep the treats abundant, then I fade the treats.

There's a great chapter in Karen Pryor's book Lads Before the Wind called The Creative Porpoise in which she describes an experiment she and some other psychologists did with dolphins in which they showed that an individual animal could be taught to be more creative through, basically clicker training but with whistles instead of clickers and dolphins instead of dogs. It was really fascinating and somehow very moving. I think what got to me was the idea of bringing out the potential for creativity in an animal, which we so rarely think of when it comes to our dogs, and what a shame it is that we don't normally relate to our dogs that way. We want them to behave and be good but we so rarely think, "I want my dog to live up to his intellectual potential."