Taking treats politely

    • Gold Top Dog

    Taking treats politely

    I have a problem with one of my dogs. Bevo, a 3 year old, neutered male, Doberman is a very well trained fella. He has received his CGC, CD, CDX and is working toward therapy certification. The big problem is that he takes a treats from hands very rough. He has never broken the skin, but he grabs for the treat and gets fingers or sometimes an entire hand in the process. He knows “easy” & “wait” but as soon as I release him….fingers beware. I have made the problem worse by flipping treats into the air for him to catch as I don#%92t want my fingers or hand nipped. Now, he is far enough along to confidently test for therapy certification, except for taking a treat politely. Anyone have any ideas/suggestions or am I not going to have give up my aspirations for him as a therapy dog.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I use the word "Gentle!" and won't release the treat until the dog takes it from me in a gentle manor.

    Although, Dulce is super gentle, so I can't say that this would work. There have been some times where she gets excited, and I feel her teeth, and I saw "Gentle!" and again, don't release the treat to the dog until the treat is taken gently.
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    • Gold Top Dog
    Put the treat in your hand and make a fist around it, fingers down.  So he cannot bite it out of your hand.  You say GENTLE (or easy or whatever word you want) and when he licks your hand, then you can open it slightly to release the treat to him. If he tries to snatch it, you remind him gentle (maybe close your fist again until he's easy with it).
    You know our Dobes are perceptive to our tone of voice and that disapproving look that says - uh uh... be nice!  He will get it.  Just practice like that. 
     
    Whenever Gracie loses her composure (particularly in the presence of other dogs who ARE snappers at treats) I do the fist and remind her to be polite. Easy as pie.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I do this just a little differently, but same basic idea.  I close the treat in my hand, but I let the dog sniff, mouth it, paw it, whatever - but I don't open my fist to reveal the treat until the dog voluntarily backs away from my hand.  Then, as I open it, I say "Easy".  Once you do that several times, you can start using the word "Easy" as a cue for the dog to back away from your hand. [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sore hands and a lot of time.  I too have had dobes with such treat taking behavior, now a malinois. 
     
    At any rate, I did a number of things to work on this behavior.   One was the open hand, close hand option.  A treat is offered, lunge at it, the hand closed.  Approach calmly, the hand opened and you could eat the treat.  I also varied the position in which I held my hand so the dog had to reach with the neck but maintain the sit (cause if you stood, the hand closed).  The stretched neck (up, down, left right) sets up a different antecedent from the typical lunge for the cookie. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times.   The more times in the day I could manage a quick bunch of practices the faster the behavior changed.  Once I had a calmer approach, then I would add the "easy" command again but on a different word.
     
    One other thing that helped tremendously (and you can do it too) was to introduce feeding treats to the house dogs all sitting side by side with body contact.  You had to wait for your name to get the cookie.  It was a frustrating exercise in the beginning but it did seem to change behavior faster than just the open and closing hand option.
     
    I would also read Susan Clothier's self control article on her website  www.flyingdogpress.com
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just one of the downsides to using treats to train (and not phasing them out once the command is learned).
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok argumentative post here....  You no longer get paid to work?  Treat based training has many positives and some negatives just like any other training.  The big difference is that food based training is typically more forgiving for novice trainers with timing issues.  It often offers more behavior change quickly which can help sustain human interest in training.  And the behavior of taking food gently should always be taught,  just how to accomplish that without using food is beyond me.
    • Gold Top Dog
    No arguement intended. Lots of trainers use toys as a reward. A favorite toy is preferred by detection dog trainers.
     
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Angelique

    Just one of the downsides to using treats to train (and not phasing them out once the command is learned).

     
     
    Actually he has never been trained with treats.  True, I do use a clicker to train him, but his reward, aside for the first week or so, has always been an ear rub.  Mainly because he prefers this, it's high value to him.   The only reason this is a big concern is because during therapy dog testing , he is required to take a treat politely.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

    ORIGINAL: Angelique

    Just one of the downsides to using treats to train (and not phasing them out once the command is learned).



    Actually he has never been trained with treats.  True, I do use a clicker to train him, but his reward, aside for the first week or so, has always been an ear rub.  Mainly because he prefers this, it's high value to him.   The only reason this is a big concern is because during therapy dog testing , he is required to take a treat politely.

     
    I get it. The advice given by the others is good. I'd check out the site which was suggested. [&:]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm positive treat training right now. It beats the HECK out of what I WAS doing, I'll tell you that. My dog does NOT respond well at ALL to -R training. Granted, I've never tried clicker training, and I am not opposed to it, but I take my dog to a trainer who does treat training. It's worked great for her well behaved and well trained dogs. Anyway, like mrv stated, you no longer get paid to work? That's one of the downfalls with treat training. But, if I remember correctly (and I could be wrong, again, I'm new to this training thing) that my trainer said you never fully get rid of the treats, you just don't always use them once the command is learned, but you always praise or do something in return. And again, treats are never phased out completely. This is what I *think* I remember my trainer saying. We got bombarded with information at our first session last week and I cannot remember everything she said about it.

    I simply say "nice" when giving Ella a treat. If she doesn't go to take it nicely, I close my hand and pull away. After that, I say "nice" and she gets it. She understands "nice". I am probably not using a preferable word, but it's working. I've also been able to teach Ella "heel" with treat training on our walks. It's working WONDERS for my pully dog. AND it's working wonders for getting her to watch me and focus on me during walks. I've been able to completely ditch the prong collar without my dog ripping my arm from my body. Sure, she is looking at me now in anticipation of a treat, but with a highly distractable dog on walks, I'm aiming for her to focus on me and watch me regardless of the reasoning for now. I believe I can build from there. But even when she isn't getting a treat, she's walking next to me. And even if she's walking a little ahead, as long as she's not ripping my arm from me, I'm fine with it.

    Sorry, I'm rambling again. It's just training is this new concept to me (sad, I know, but everyone learns at different times) and learning how to make things work is really exciting to me. I'm loving it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh, and I'm mostly loving a HAPPY dog. I'm seeing a happier and more confident, calmer dog, too. And I'm gaining confidence and becoming calmer, which I'm SURE she's feeding off of, making this a positive experience overall.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Angelique

    Just one of the downsides to using treats to train (and not phasing them out once the command is learned).




    Even if you phase out treats, the first time someone unexpectedly offers him one, he may grab at it if he hasn't been accustomed to having to take food gently.  Some dogs that have never been trained with treats are grabby about food when it is offered by a stranger.  For a therapy dog, this is an absolute no-no, since you never  know who will offer what and when!!  Therapy dogs must be proofed against this, and should also have an impeccable "leave it" command (people drop soiled tissues, pills, and some other really disgusting things in the hospital or nursing home environment), and they should be gentle with their mouths, especially if they will be working around elders, whose skin is often paper thin and tears readily.  And, if you've ever done visits to nursing homes, you realize that you can say "no" all you want, but some of the elders will hide dog bones in their nightstands and offer them to your dog anyway.  I always tell my volunteers that if their dog has allergies, they need to "stock" those nightstands with acceptable treats. [;)]

    And, chewbecca, you did hear correctly - treats are phased out as a constant, once the dog knows the behavior.  But, you provide a treat (or another form of reinforcement, such as a toy) every once in a while anyway, because it keeps the behavior happening over the long term.  How long would anyone show up to work once the paycheck stops?  Even volunteers would stop volunteering if they were never thanked.  The only people who keep showing up for work with no pay and no thanks are slaves.