Cesar Milan - Good or Bad?

With all these CM threads, I'm beginning to think I'm the only person around who's never watched his shows...
 
Am I the only one? 
 
You all are making me curious as to why he's so controversial.

ORIGINAL: Angelique

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

pitterchi, if you want my recommended reading list for new owners, here it is:

If you are looking to discuss Cesar Millan on a dog board, you need to be aware of the almost religious fanaticism and need to control the thoughts and actions of others which is the foundation of APDT "Positive Only" clicker-and-treat fanatics' agendas. This is based on human emotions, and money in their pocket views above your interests and relationship you wish to achieve with your dog.

Are you an independant thinker?

Lets take a look at the "recommendations":

"The Culture Clash"  Jean Donaldson : One of the primary emotional bashers of anyone who does not subscribe to her own "vision" of dog training. She was very active in trying to stop Cesar's show from ever being aired in the first place. National Geographic ignored her rants and she is pissed off over lack of control over what other poeple think.
 
"The Power of Positive Training"   Pat Miller: Very active in the "Cesar must be stopped" letter writing campaign to get Cesar kicked off of the Oprah show and tried to get National Geographic to cancel his show. Her review of his book was a total joke.

"Clicking With Your Dog"  Peggy Tillman: Haven't heard any bashing from this one, yet.

"Bones Would Rain From the Sky"  Suzanne Clothier: Great gal with good insight into the value of leadership. Not part of the Cesar bashing movement  (so far) and a lot of her ideas are in line with his philosophies.

"Don't Shoot the Dog"  Karen Pryor: Very much a part of the Cesar bashing movement. Her "dolphin training" methods do not transfer to dogs because dogs do not live within a controlled environment. Her followers are cultlike clicker-and-treat extremists who have no understanding of a dogs as a social animal, trying to live within a human social structure.

If you are interested in communicating and understanding your dog and using Cesar's philosophies and methods, I would suggest reading his book "Cesar's Way", watching his show, and visiting his website at: [linkwww.dogpsychologycenter.com[/link]>http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com]www.dogpsychologycenter.com[/link]
 
If you are looking for a dog behaviorist/trainer to help you with your dog, you will have to find one through the International Association of Canine Professionals and not the APDT. They are a group of mostly click-and-treat extremists who know little about dog behavior and Cesar does not recommend them for information and accurate understanding of his philosophies and methods...they don't "get-it".

I personally recommend "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. And...

"How To Be Your Dogs Best Friend" by the Monks of New Skete.

Good luck!

Welcome to the world of sad but true facts.

 
*tssst*
 
Easy there killer...
 
What was that you were saying about trainers having agendas?  Honestly, you're like listening to the dog training version of Rush Limbaugh.  I think the real question is are YOU an independant thinker.....
 
 
To the OP--I actually find value in the authors Anne lists and in some of what CM says.  It might not be a bad idea to check them out at your local Barnes and Nobles or Borders and see what you think of the different training methods.  If you see one that jives with you, buy the book, use the methods and see what you think.
 
If you post here long enough you will soon see that this is an issue of political proportions with people on both sides dutifully towing the party line.  The majority of these debates are about as productive as banging your head into the wall a couple of dozen times (and sometimes just as painful), but every so often you catch something that is useful.

MMmmm i wonder if Cesar really hurts dogs why he is not in jail by now?

 
Why isn't Snoop Dog in jail after having 3 past convictions and was just arrested again 2 days ago for drug and weapons charges???????
 
Totally OT, but I'm watching the news as I read these posts and that baffles me way more than CM not being in jail![]

ORIGINAL: Mastiff

MMmmm i wonder if Cesar really hurts dogs why he is not in jail by now?

Why isn't Snoop Dog in jail after having 3 past convictions and was just arrested again 2 days ago for drug and weapons charges???????

Totally OT, but I'm watching the news as I read these posts and that baffles me way more than CM not being in jail![]

Not everyone who gets sued by a dog owner goes to jail, that's why.
And, stupidity just peeves me, but I am too old to still be amazed by it, I guess. []


BTW, wasn't it the Monks of New Skete who finally realized how much harm the "alpha roll" was doing, and recanted, saying they no longer recommend it????? 

If you want to know how to be your dog's best friend, read Trish McConnell's "Leader of the Pack" booklet instead.  You can be in charge and still be nice to your dog. [8D]


This sounds like I'm getting pretty close to being called, now what was that...oh yeah, a treat dispensing butler roommate, so I think I'll just go back to [sm=banghead002.gif].

If you want to know how to be your dog's best friend, read Trish McConnell's "Leader of the Pack" booklet instead. You can be in charge and still be nice to your dog.

 
I haven't read the booklet, does that mean I'm not my dogs best friend, or I am not nice to them?[8|]

I think I would be one of his biggest fans if he were to kill the alpha rolls and the choke chains.

I think I would be one of his biggest fans if he were to kill the alpha rolls and the choke chains.

 
I agree.
I would like to hear how one would turn an overly aggessive dog around without his method.
 
I haven't had to deal with that, so it would be of interest to me.

Two words: operant conditioning.  You can take a course on it at your local state college or community college, and will then have a good grasp of how the principles are used.

ORIGINAL: snownose

If you want to know how to be your dog's best friend, read Trish McConnell's "Leader of the Pack" booklet instead. You can be in charge and still be nice to your dog.

I haven't read the booklet, does that mean I'm not my dogs best friend, or I am not nice to them?[8|]

Maybe.  Humans often unwittingly do things that confuse or upset their dogs without intending to.  But, I wouldn't be able to assess your dog without seeing it.

[linkhttp://www.k9aggression.com/Aggression-Treatment/management.html]http://www.k9aggression.com/Aggression-Treatment/management.html[/link]
 
The above is a link to Karen Overall's plan, including some step-by-step instructions, though there are no case histories for examples. It should also be noted that the plan does not imply a cure for aggression but that one can successfully manage an aggressive dog.

Anybody on this board who has done this?
 
I like to see examples, what is written on paper doesn't always translate well to real life
 

As you know, snownose, I am a trainer, and deal with all kinds of dogs, both aggressive and shy, confident and submissive.  To be honest, if you are interested in aggression, you would do better reading some of the authors who deal with it in great detail.  In addition to Karen Overall, you might want to try James O'Heare and Brenda Aloff for a start.  There's way too much information for anyone to type on a message board.  Also, if you are interested in the scientific and peer reviewed info on behavior, Steven Lindsay's three volume set is great.  It's dry, and it's expensive, but thorough.
If you are simply interested in whether any of us have rehabbed any aggressive dogs, the answer is yes. But, there is no one prescription on how one goes about it.  Every dog is different, although there are some parallels in terms of how dogs learn in general.

If you don't get the knowledge you need from reading, it's a good idea to go to seminars.  Brenda Aloff has live dogs at hers, so does Brian Kilcommons (more to your taste perhaps, since he will use correction).  Tawzer Dog Videos is a good source.