Training older dog and 1 yr old puppy HELP!!

Get thee to a store and buy crates!  That will quickly solve your problem.  I don't know your reasons for not starting with crates (are these your first dogs?) but it's not too late to crate train them.  It is not cruel to crate them and they will not resent you, etc, etc.
 
My impressions from your post:  life at your house is crazy and the dogs probably aren't getting much attention or exercise and they are not housetrained.  At this point they should be confined if you are not able to directly supervise them.  Do exactly what you'd do with a puppy and go back to square one.  Also a NILIF program would be helpful though with lots of other people interacting with the dogs it might be hard to enforce. 
 
Two young dogs is about 3x the work so you will need to seriously dedicate some time to these two and there are no quick fixes.  There are lots of posts on this board about how to house train a dog, crate train a dog, etc.  Have you had these two dogs since they were puppies?  Have you done any formal training with them?

Hi,
Thanks for the reply I have a crate and x pen that has been used for both dogs. Yes the house is crazy lol. But they were at least I thought trained. They were pee pad trained, or so I thought. The second the gate came down they lost thier minds. I have been taking the older dog out and he is doing better. The youngest well she refuses to go outside. They get tons of attention..Too much if anything. It is obvious I have to retrain them. I did something wrong. How long is it ok to leave them in the pen/crate? I put the pad in there, just enough to sleep and pee...lol...They tear the pad up. Do I feed them in the pen? Should they have totally free time? Or always be limited ? I am so confused....:-( Why r they doing this to me!!!!!! lol 

oh I forgot to mention..I prefer them to be trained to go inside. There are many animals outside in our neighborhood and I just dont trust them being outside that must..Lord only knows what is in my yard! lol..I thought about litter training..is that harder to do? Thanks

I keep my dogs crated when I'm gone to work and at night.  My routine is 6:30 a.m. out for potty, then feed in crate, 7:30 a.m out for potty again, go to work, come home at lunch 11:00 a.m. out for potty, then good to go until 5:30 p.m. potty again, feed in crate, potty at 6:30p.m. play time in house supervised, potty again at 10:00p.m. good until morning.  If I'm home in the am I will let them play then too.  I always have water for them in the crate.  If you have a metal crate you can get hangers for water and food.  Always take them from the crate to outside.  Take the young one out, even if she doesn't want to go outside.  If she doesn't potty then put her back in her crate and try again ever 20 minutes to a half hour or so until she goes potty then praise her so much your neighbors think your nuts.  This is what works for me.  DO NOT put potty pads in their crate or they will get confused about sleeping space and potty space, you do not want them to potty where they sleep or you will never get them housebroke.  Good luck, with your puppies.

Thanks for the reply...Just one thing thou...What if I want them to go inside...say litter or puppy pad? How do you do that and not confuse the sleep/potty area? Oh Btw..with the boy dogs will they continue to mark after training or does that go along with the regular potty? I feel silly saying this stuf..Ill be saying number 1 and number 2 soon! lol
Also, how long do you do this? I mean is there a length of time until they can be fully trustworthy to go where you want?

Are these both male dogs and are they neutered? 
 
I really can't help you with training a dog to use a litter box or pee pads because I've never had a dog that uses them.  Maybe you can start a new thread asking about that? 
 
You definitely don't want the pee pad in the crate and what you've done is taught your dog that it's ok to eliminate in the crate.  I think what you need to do is basically treat both dogs like you would a new puppy.  The crate should be small, small enough that they can stand, turn around and sleep but nothing else.  Dogs instinctively don't want to eliminate where they sleep.  Put the litter and pee pads away from the crates. 
 
My routine would be this: Dog wakes up comes out of the crate is taken outside to go potty on a leash in the same area each time and I tell him to "hurry up" (you can use any words for it).  If he goes potty he's rewarded and can come inside and be loose but supervised, i.e. he's always in the same room as me.  If he doesn't go potty he comes back inside and goes in his crate for 10 minutes (no playing, no nothing) and then we go back outside again.  I repeat this until he goes.  Now that he's gone he can have time inside to play/whatever and he's supervised.  No more than 30 minutes later I take him back outside to go potty again.  Big rewards and praise when he goes.  Now I've got things to do and can't watch him every minute so he goes back in his crate for an hour.  An hour later I take him outside and start the whole potty routine again. 
 
Does this make sense to you?  Substitute pee pads or litter for outside if you still want them to go inside.  Honestly though, I think you need to totally change their routine and get them going to the bathroom outside whether they want to or not.  Right now, they think it's ok to potty inside and I would not allow that at all.
 
You mention animals outside so I assume you don't have a fenced yard.  Can you block off an area with x-pens or temporary fencing so that you can a safe place to potty them?  You should have them on leash to potty them so maybe you'd feel safer anyway. 
 
What kind of exercise do these dogs get?  Do they get outside to run around?  Do they go on walks? 
 
As for the crates and how long they should stay in them I think that since these are adult dogs they should, once they've been taught that a crate is not a place to potty, be able to go at least 8 hours in the crate (like overnight).  Make sure you have things in the crate to entertain them like kongs.  Nothing that they can shred and potentially eat.
 
I think that the whole process of getting them to stop pottying in their crates and the house is going to take you quite some time.  You need to be extremely vigilant and consistent with them.  ALso, I mentioned before doing a NILIF program with them.  I strongly suggest it.  If you do a search you should be able to find links to info on it, or ask in another post.  In conjunction with tackling the potty problems you need to become the leader and teach them both some proper manners.  Can you get to an obedience class somewhere?
 
I hope this helps you somewhat and I've made sense.  I feel like I'm rambling a bit!  Feel free to post any more questions.

Thanks for your reply. I still have a couple of questions thou..Ok If I take them both out at the same time the younger one wants to play..Thats all. I am also confused about the feeding. Do you feed them inside the crate? So when I read stand turn and sleep is this to include feeding/water also? I twas mentioned to feed them in the crate to reinforce sleep vs pee area. What I have is a larger size kennel/travel crate the plastic type that i used for both dogs. I also have a 4 or 5 panel xpen. 1 panel is broken but can be used if I really need to.
They have been getting all the play time they want. Usually inside. As I mentioned we have 5 kids, door is left open way too much. We have way too many larger not so nice dogs that roam around (my dogs are Tzus) so we prefer to play inside. The panel type pen I have is definatly not big enough for play time outside. But that is really not a big issue. We could easily take them out for an hour or so on a leash to play. But there again I thought if they go out to pee and then we go out to play they will see outside as playtime..Seems I heard that somewhere. Ok so assuming i do feed them in the crate..Pee breaks every hour or 2 exept at night, and 1-2 hours playtime, the rest of the time they are to be in the crate? Man that just seems so harsh to me but then again I let them have too much freedom thinking I had done such a great job training them. oh where is that wall banging smiley! lol
I am considering getting another crate to seperate them.
The older dogs seems to be getting it but he younger...oh poor girl...also, if they never go inside what do you do when its pooring rain? I live on the gulf coast and it rains here...ALOT! lol.. I hate pee on the floor but Im not going outside during a hurricane for nothin! What do you do then?
 
Sorry if I am babbling but I love my babies and want to do this right now that I have realized what a complete failure I am
 
Thanks

Oh
older male fixed..younger one not fixed
 
NILIF prgram sounds really great. Just 1 thing.. the things they must do..sit, lay, whatever, does it have to be the same everytime until they have learned it or can it be just anything as long as they do something to get something? The links I found didnt really explain that..There is only 1 class in my area and it is only 1 time a year..and its at petsmart..not sure if I trust that..But I will look into it when it rolls around again  

Feeding: Yes, feed them in their crates.  Put the bowl of food in and take it out when they have finished.  Unless you free feed which I'd stop doing.  Or, feed them outside of their crates and make them work for their food.  Sits, downs, stays, teach them tricks, etc.  One dog at a time though.
 
Water in crate: It's your choice.  You don't want it in a bowl on the floor of the crate that could be knocked over in any case.  My personal preference is no water.  Mine have plenty of access to water when they are loose in the house or yard so I don't see the need to have it in their crates.
 
Taking them outside to potty: Take them out one at a time on leash.  If they are not out there together then they can't play, can they? The end result you're looking for is a dog that you can take outside, give the potty command (like "hurry up"), they quickly take care of business and you can go back inside or give playtime or whatever.  This will be helpful during rainy season when you can go quickly outside with an umbrella or in your raincoat and tell them to potty and be back inside in minutes.  Really, part of having a dog is taking them outside in bad weather - it comes with the territory.  Of course you won't be going outside in the height of a hurricane but that's not an everyday occurrence is it?  Maybe you could just set up some newspapers in your garage or something then.  You've got a couple of months to get them straightened out before hurricane season anyway!
 
Crates: I would definitely keep them crated separately.  Their strongest bond should be to you and they should look at you as the leader and that's not going to happen if they are together 24/7. 
 
Time in the crate: Basically if you're not supervising them then they should be crated or tethered to you until they are reliable in the house.  Stretches of hours at a time in the crate is fine if they can't be watched.  So if you can supervise them 8 hours a day then great, they can be out of their crate and playing then, but if you're in one room doing something and they are in another room you won't be able to catch any accidents or stop unwelcome behaviors like jumping on people.  The key is to not let them pee in the house at all and by always making sure they do it outside and rewarding them for it they'll start to automatically want to go outside to potty.
 
NILIF: When you ask if the behavior has to be the same until they've learned it...are you refering to teaching them to sit, down, etc?  NILIF is not designed to teach them these behaviors, rather it's sort of meant to modify their view of the world in general, does that make sense?  It teaches them that you are the leader and make the rules that they must follow.  So teaching them sit, down, stay, etc. is something that is done separately.  It's sort of hard to ask a dog to sit before going thru a door when the dog doesn't know how to sit to begin with.
 
Are you planning to neuter the younger male?
 

I gotcha...That makes more sense..Thank you. Yes I plan on fixing the younger dog I had already decided to get a nother crate. Thing is I bought one and it seems really small. The dog can stand..barely and lay down. Not much room for food ect.  I saw a wire crate w/divider..would this be ok or is that still them together? Or just get a bigger travel crate..the plastic kind or is this one ok? The older dog he is getting it..I havent seen one accident today. He was doing so good I leashed him to me for awhile this morning..He looked at me like Id lost my mind but he seemed to get it after a few minutes..I am in the process of reading all I can find on the NILIF system..Does it work on kids too? lmao I wish.....

Not sure about kids and NILIF but you could give it a try!
 
A plastic crate or wire crate is fine - it's a personal preference usually unless you have a dog with some sort of issues with either.
 
IMO, yes you should have 2 crates.  It shouldn't be so small the the dog can do nothing but stand or curl up into a ball but it shouldn't be big enough for a sleep area and a pee pad area.  Think of the dog laying on it's side stretched out comfortably - the crate should allow for that but not much more.