At My Wits End With Crating

Do you have a a plastic crate or do you have a metal crate?  If you have plastic I suggest getting a metal one where she can see out of it well.  So she won't be Clausterphobic.

Crate training can be complicated.  I would start with feeding the dog in the crate.  The only time the dog should have access to food is in the crate.  It may take a few days, but most dogs with give in, and go eat. 
 
This will be a good gage of how serious your problem is.  If it takes the dog less than 6 days to give in and eat then you have a problem you can manage with behavior modification.  If after six days he has not eaten anything, then you are going to need to speak with your vet about some behavior mod meds. 

mrgmfoster - when I feed her in the crate should I close the door? If I don't she'll only get a mouthful and drag it off to eat elsewhere. Should I just put the food in there and wait for her to go in of her own free will, or place her in there with the food?
 
Firestorm - we have a plastic crate and plan to borrow and friends metal one to see if that make a difference.
 
We know nothing about her life before she came to us. I sometimes wonder if her old owners used a crate for punishment, or just left her there with no breaks and attention.

mrgmfoster - when I feed her in the crate should I close the door? If I don't she'll only get a mouthful and drag it off to eat elsewhere. Should I just put the food in there and wait for her to go in of her own free will, or place her in there with the food?

 
Wait for her to go in of her own free will, and let her snatch the food and drag it out.  Let this go on for about 3 days or so. Then after about three days start closing the door behind her.  Give the dog twenty minutes in the crate to eat.  After twenty minutes the food is put away until the next meal time.

Do you exercise her before putting her in the crate? Some people crate in the morning when they go to work right after a good nights rest and if your dog hasnt had a walk or been exersiced then its not pleasant at all to be crated....just a thought =)
If you have ever used the crate as punishment your dog is defintly never going to want to go in there. I'm not accusing you, just trying to think of reasons why your fur baby is so adamnet against the crate.
Is it of proper size for your dog? Do you amybe have a part of the house that you could block off with baby gates, such as the kitchen for her to stay in instead? We did that with Rory and she was so happy! Keep us posted!

sheprano - I do exercise her. We get up alittle before 6:00 a.m. and let her out of the crate to go potty. After she's pottied we play a little fetch or other games and then we come back in. I feed her while I'm in the shower (separately, not at the same time and place ). I have toys for her play with while I'm getting ready and then we go on a nice long walk before I put her back in the crate (7:45 a.m.) and I head off to work.
 
At lunch I come home, take her out, play, finish any left over breakfast, go for walk, back in crate. In the evening, my hubby and I play fetch with her, do some clicker sessions and go on nice long walks.
 
As to punishment - we have never used it for punishment, althoug I think she thinks she is being punished simply because we are putting her in there and then leaving. We try to give her treats and love on her a little before and after we put her in.
 
As to the gates, we tried that. She can jump over the standard ones - she has a 4 1/2 foot jump - and the taller ones she can climb over. ***sigh***
 
I think I'll try feeding her in there and begin incorporating the clicker with it.
 
Thanks for your feedback!

Well geez she is a stubborn one huh? I heard some dogs like a dirty shirt of yours to cuddle with. I wish I could of been more help but have you tried searching in the dog search forum?

Ah yes, the crate avoiders. [] As a lay person, I would certainly suggest doing what Mic has suggested.

Another thing I think that may help would be to down-play the attention you give your dog right before the crate, and right after she gets in. I try to be very matter of fact about the whole thing. I don't do a whole lot of loving on my dogs right before crate time, and when they go in they get a treat, good dog, and then I'm done.

Another thing for the sulky ones, or the runners - or the hiders (and I have had each), is I keep a slip lead around (because I don't like for them to drag a leash more than necessary). If they beat a path, try to hide, or won't budge, I just matter-of-factly put the leash on, and walk them to their crates. Typically the need for this diminishes pretty quickly.

For any dog that comes to me totally freaked out by the crate I'll sometimes start out by putting their food on the floor outside the crate - between the open door and the mouth of the crate. Then a few days later I'll move it inside. Then a few days later I start shutting the door.

On the other hand, I start crate training day one that a dog comes to me, and often we're dealing with a lot of stressors at once, so that's another reason why I do the food in the mouth of the crate first.

I would follow Mic's suggestions and thoughts first because he's the professional but have you tried crating her in the evenings for short time periods when you aren't going anywhere?  I think she is associating the crating with being left and *maybe* has mild separation anxiety.  I would not make a fuss with her when leaving (i know - hard to do when you feel guilty for leaving them LOL) but just matter-of-factly encourage her in and then ignore.  My basset foster was not a fan of his crate in the beginning and some days we do have "chase me around the couch" before going in but he has gotten much better - I think it is due to the fact he is not getting along with my dog or the other foster so I play musical dogs in the evenings when home and someone is always crated (but still has a view of everyone).  Just a thought. 

My basset foster was not a fan of his crate in the beginning and some days we do have "chase me around the couch" before going in but he has gotten much better.

Robin, [sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif] Oh yes, I know the chase me around the couch game. Zippy played this game when he first came (he had never been crated before). We also played retrieve the dog from under the -insert furniture item here-.

After a few months of matter of fact, he now *runs* crazy dog pell mell, DARTS into the crate, and eagerly awaits his good Zippy treat.

We must have posted about the same time! 
 
Don't think I can ever use the word zippy and my basset in the same sentence LOL!  He reminds me of Eye-ore (spelling? Pooh's friend) most of the time. 
 
My ACD foster on the other hand knows zippy!  LOL 
 
 

How long is she in the crate while you are at work?  Do you leave the TV or radio on?
 
I simply was opposed to crating my puppy so we cordoned off a part of our basement about 30x15 feet and put her opened crate and bed in it.  She had a window to look out, a radio, and the cats for entertainment.  She managed to chew the plastic crate to bits, and her plastic feeding station.  My husband and I staggered our hours so she was alone about 6 hours. I still feel quilty 9 years later that I was forced to put her in there.  I will never have another puppy while I have to have a job. 
 
My 3 year old unhousebroken adopted dog from the shelter hates crates , the shelter people said never put him in a crate.  So I put my kitchen chairs at the doorway and hung blankets over them to confine him in the kitchen.  I left him for 5 min, then 10, then 20, then 1 hoiur etc.  he did sneak out and wnet up to my bedroom where he laid on his bed.  Never had a single pee accident.  I took off 4 days when we brought him home and took him out every hour to pee.  Worked like a charm.
 
I know everyone will tell you to crate, but think aobut it, crating just recently came the "thing".  In the 1950,70,80's and earlier you never heard of such a thing.  

Ya'll are so wonderful with all your advice and help. I really appreciate! My hubby and I are new to the dog thing. I always had cats growing up and he never really had a pet. There were animals in the house, but not really his - if you know what I mean.
 
Before getting Penny we researched, talked with dog owners, prayed and auditioned different breeds; but you are never really ready )
 
Mic - hubby and I feed her in her crate last night and it was like a different dog. At first she snatched a mouthful and ate it several feet away, then she got tired of that and just stood in the crate to finish the bowl. She never got all the way in - her hind legs were out, but all evening after the feeding she would walk in it and investigate for more food and treats. We started to click whenever she'd go in and give her treat. However...I still had to go get her when it was time to actually "go crate" for the night. But, hey...I'm optimistic.
 
I put her food bowl in the crate this morning and she did the snatch and run thing again, then she settled in a little better. She didn't eat it all, but she usually isn't a big morning eater. We will try again with dinner. I also plan to put a shirt in there with her tonight to sleep with.
 
Hubby and I are trying to be more matter-o-fact about crate time. Last night we simply moved her crate to our bedroom. Told her it was time to crate...she ran...we calmly followed her, picked her up, put her in the crate, gave her treat and quick pat and closed the door. This morning I opened the door, put her leash on her and she walked her outside. After she pottied I loved on her and played.
 
Hollysmom - we crate her overnight 10p - 6a. In the monring I play with her, walk her and give her toys to amuse herself with while I'm getting ready, then its back in the crate about 7:45a. I come home between noon and 1 p.m. to let her out, play and go for a walk, then back in after an hour. I get home at 5:15-5:30 and let her out. She is out of the crate all evening, but we keep it wherever we are; kitchen, tv room, bedroom.
 
Today I took Miss Penny to our local Doggie DayCare at our vets office. I think you are right rredbird, we suspect she has slight separation anxiety. I've heard that this can also come on because they aren't exercised enough. Hopfully the doggie daycare will wipe her out and she'll be in a better temperment for the crate tonight. I plan to go visit her at lunch.
 
Again...thank you all for your helpful advice. If you think of other things to try as solutions to the crating dilema, pass it on!

Next time she runs, you may want to try to leash her and walk her back, as opposed to carrying her.