Crate schedule?

I see where you're going Edie, but I disagree with you.

My dog actually never decided that he loves his crate, so I feed him in it and leave him there if I am going out for a couple of hours because he's in the Destructo Chewing phase. But I am self-employed and can watch him the rest of the time. If I need to go away for a long time, he's got human friends who love keeping an eye on him.

But many people get dogs who have jobs or are otherwise ill-prepared to deal with the fact that dogs need to be watched all the time, that they do really silly stuff like eat glass or electrical wiring--that they can become destructive. Crates can help teach humans how to manage their dogs' environment better.

Is this perfect? No. But I do think that crating a dog makes owners more responsible for exercising their dog when they come home, and think more about getting home and not going to happy hour, and think more about puppyproofing the house. A crate is a symbol of I've Got To Think About This Dog Even When I Am Not Here.

And I think that dogs who are crated have a much better success rate than dogs who are not, because they learn things like What To Chew, and Where To Poop. They miss out on eating the whole sofa or getting rushed to the vet, and this makes it much more likely that they will stay in the family.

I would love it if people thought about these things as thoroughly as you do, but the sad fact is that they don't. Not until the dog is there and damaging their stuff and hurting their quality of life. The dog can teach the human a lot about empathy and leadership in this situation, but only if the dog gets a chance to stick around. The crate helps with that. It's like training wheels for humans, and I don't think it hurts the dog *half* as much as a bowel obstruction or a high-kill shelter would.

All of the books I have read (and many resources on the Internet) strongly suggest a consistent schedule that involves a significant amount of time in the crate while the puppy is being housetrained.

juneaudog, here is what I do - maybe it can give you some insight. My adult dogs are crated four hours in the AM (with a lunchtime potty and play break) and then four hours in the afternoon - while I work. They are loose the other 16 hours of the day. They do eat in their crates, and travel in crates, but that's it. One of my adult dogs is loose even while I work, and another of them is part time.

Puppies are on a similar schedule. When Nick was 8 weeks old I set up a large ex-pen with toys, bed, open crate, water bottle, etc. He was in it on the same schedule as the adult dogs for my workday, and never felt the need to potty there (although provision was made by way of pee pads had he needed to do so).

He was out whenever I was awake, and watching him like a hawk. I crated him at night (with potty break as needed) or if I couldn't be watching him - like showering. After he turned about 4 months old he moved to a crate (for work hours), but he still spends some time in his ex-pen when I shower in the mornings, or when we go out to eat.

In another month or two he'll get to start sleeping out on dog beds with the adult dogs, dispensing with the overnight crating. I crate my dogs during the day for their own safety. But, my dogs also get long off leash romps, frisbee, fetch, agility, and sheep herding - so they are very well exercised and entertained. Sometimes they're grateful for a chance to sleep.

I don't have particularly strong feelings either way, I can just tell you that this is how I manage.

As Chuffy mentioned some of us do have to work, and if we were not allowed to crate our dogs we could not be dog owners.  I have 2 shelter-adopted puppies right now that could very well have been euthanized if there weren't enough homes in this world for them.  Crating is part of the teaching process in making your dog into a well behaved resident of your home.  I cannot let my dogs ee and poop all over the house, and chew up the furniture and baseboards which is what they would do right now if they were out of their crates when we weren't home.  They are still puppies, and I do plan on letting have free run of the house when they are fully housebroken and past the destructive phase but for now a crate enables them to have a wonderful home with us, and enables us to be able to keep them.
 
If you asked my dogs if they led a happy life, I would bet any amount of money they would give you an EMPHATIC YES!  My dogs are very happy, healthy, and LOVE us and LOVE their crates, so I don't think they are being abused.  Gee, they gleefully BOUND into their crate every morning as I'm leaving for work as soon as I say the word "kennel", and anxiously await with tails wagging their stuffed Kongs to dive into.  I hardly doubt if they were being abused in their crates they would go into them willingly, let alone gleefully.
 
They are in their crates for 8 hours a day while we are at work, and when I come home I usually wake them up from a nap, so they hardly seem stressed out about having been in their crates.  They are let outside onto our 5 acre property and have a good run, poop, and lay session for a half hour before they come in and eat dinner.  Then, they get another play session in the house along with frequent trips outside for more pottys and to run around, along with an obedience training session.  Then we all plop in front of the TV and they lay down on my lap (as much as they can fit!) and get petted and loved on for the rest of the night until we all go upstairs to bed.
 
On the weekends we rarely leave the house for more than a few hours at a time so are hardly crated, and they get a lot of extra exercise, walks, and games of catch the frisbee outside in the yard, usually a trip to Petsmart, and once the weather is better they will be going for long walks on the bike trails with us.  My dogs are utterly spoiled rotten and receive the best in veterinary care, if all I ask of them is to lie down quietly during the day for a while 5 days a week I don't think that's too much to ask.
 
My revious 2 dogs who lived to the ripe old ages of 12 and 15 were crated as puppies, then later had the run of the house all day while we were at work, and I can tell you that all they did was sleep all day!  There were days when I was home from work for the day, and they would go to their favorite spots in the house and curl up and sleep and I'd hardly see them until dinner time!
 
To each his own, and I doubt my vet, friends, and colleages who know me would EVER call me an animal abuser.

ORIGINAL: 2CrazyAussies
Then we all plop in front of the TV and they lay down on my lap (as much as they can fit!) and get petted and loved on for the rest of the night until we all go upstairs to bed.

Something about this made me smile

juneaudog, here is what I do - maybe it can give you some insight. My adult dogs are crated four hours in the AM (with a lunchtime potty and play break) and then four hours in the afternoon - while I work. They are loose the other 16 hours of the day. They do eat in their crates, and travel in crates, but that's it. One of my adult dogs is loose even while I work, and another of them is part time.

Thanks - this is pretty much the schedule we are moving over to, of course, but Juneau is also crated at night since she is not yet completely housetrained.

I *do* need to point out that since moving her to the crate (instead of a safe room) during the day has drastically cut down on the number of accidents we have while gone - she will basically not make a mess in the crate (unless she is sick) so I think the schedule is working out very well.

They are in their crates for 8 hours a day while we are at work

Can you hold your bladder,lie in the same position,with just enough room to stand and turn around for 8 hours at a time?

who know me would EVER call me an animal abuser.

Thats the thing, it's only the people who dont use crates and manage just fine through many,many,many years of dog owning who think it's abuse.

and chew up the furniture and baseboards which is what they would do right now if they were out of their crates when we weren't home.

But why?? Why do they feel the need to chew up furniture and baseboards??I dont get it. Do they get an adequite long off leash walk in the mornings before you leave for work,or do they get up from sleeping all night,only to be placed into a cage and forced to sleep another 8 hours?
A busy dog,is a tired dog,which may explain why i've never had a destructive canine in my midst.Maybe myself,my family and my friends have all been extremely lucky to also have never encountered these problems,as none of them have ever used crates either. I am being totally honest when i say i have not owned one dog that has ripped up a piece of my furniture or house.

Anyway i know i'm just beating a dead horse here,i just hope i have given some food for thought and shown that a crate should not be an automatic accompaniment when one owns a dog!

Oye.  Here we go again.
 
My dogs are crated when we are away.  Their crates are large enough for TWO of them to share and still have moving around room.  There are practical reasons for crating that have nothing to do with keeping my home and furniture intact, but everything to do with keeping THEM intact and unharmed.  When I am home a simple "that will do" stops them cold should someone get a wild hair and start posturing.  My dogs are quite well trained, but, gosh, they are still DOGS and sometimes one takes offense to something that any other time would be just fine.  They can't harm one another if they are crated.  And I have issues with the possibility of a fire and how firefighters would feel about dealing with SIX scared german shepherds running loose in the house.  They are crated after breakfast and a good deal of running around time on their own, and a good and lively game of fetch with one of us.  Sorry, but none of us has time for an off lead romp in the mornings...I leave the house by 7AM at the latest.  We make sure that they don't have to be crated for as long as 8 hours by juggling OUR schedules.  If DS has to leave early for work, then DH goes in later, OR I plan my work so that I can work in this area and make a couple long stops at home.  And often I have to half drag them out of the crates to get them to go out to potty.
 
As for bedtime...well, when either of us stands up even to go to the bathroom, four of the six head for the kitchen door WANTING to go down to their crates.  The three older boys of the bunch sleep with closed, but not latched doors.  Theo still has his door latched because he is a rotten stinker who will go find something to chew up and bring it to lay beside someone while he does so.  ALL of them are welcome to stay upstairs with us.  Those four CHOSE to sleep in their crates.
 
So, ok, I'm abusive and a loosy owner.  And, oh yeah.  This time of year daily walks just don't happen.  It's dark when I leave and dark when I get home.  So they have to settle for an hour or so of fetch after I change my clothes and get dinner going.  Sigh.  Its a dogs life.

Can you hold your bladder,lie in the same position,with just enough room to stand and turn around for 8 hours at a time? ORIGINAL: Edie

what do you do when you are sleeping? That's what dogs do when they are in their crates, they play with their kongs then settle into a nice nap! When I come home, my dog is happily sleeping in his kennel, and does not mind going in, in the morning. He is my rescue dog, and if you were to ask him if he preferred to be crated for 5 hours instead of sitting in a kennel for 20 hours of the day, I think he would gladly say the crate. I am not saying that crating is for everyone, it's a matter of opinion for the dog and owner. What I do know is that even when I am home, Casey still likes to take his naps inside of his crate. He goes in on his own, comes out when he is done.

Heck, I can hold my bladder for 8 hours while I am at work, getting up and down from my desk 7-8 times a day!  There's days at work I'm so busy I don't have time for a bathroom break!  It's even easier while you are sleeping, which is what dogs do while they are in their crates!

And of course they get a morning romp before I go to work, actually 2 of them!  The first time my husband gets up at 5:30am and lets them outside for potty and to run around, then they get fed.  Then I get up at 7:00am and they are let out to play in the house while I am getting ready.  Then it's outside again right before I leave for work at 7:45am to go otty and more running around before they settle into their crates for the day.  My husband is home by 4:00pm and lets them out right away, and usually comes home to sleeping pups.

My dogs are very happy animals and you would never think they were abused if you met them!  And I will let them have run of the house as soon as they are old enough AND I know they will be okay.  I agree with Glenmar, it is for their own safety more than it is for the safety of our home.
 
I snapped this shot of Krystal and Tucker in Tucker's crate, as you can see the door was wide open, and they were snuggling and playing in it.  Gee, all on their own!
 
 

I think it's far beyond beating a dead horse...it's more like beating an Eohippus fossil at this point!  [sm=lol.gif]
 

hehee. True enough Gina. Crates are a handy training tool, but so mis-used. Leaving your poor dog locked in a crate for more than four hours at a time on a routine basis is pure and simple cruelty. It's actually illegal-- if we tried to do that to lab or zoo animals we'd all get arrested. Nothing wrong with confining a dog, but why do you have to use such a small space for such prolonged times?

It's actually illegal

Just looked thru my cities animal reg's and nope..it's not illegal.
 
ANY tool people have for training wil be overused or misused, by people until they know better. Period.
 
Crate, choke chain, pinch collar, zap collar, leashes, muzzles, flexi leads, harnesses, head collars, regular buckle collars, back yards, kennel runs, ex pens,...
 
Again...which moral police squad gets to say the dog in the crate 5 hours a day is being abused while the dog with a collapsed trachea,  or constant choking noises, from ulling on it's buckle collar during its long walks, or the dog fed so much it is totally obese but it gets to lie around the house all day...is not?

Very well said IMO. [sm=wink2.gif]

ORIGINAL: juneaudog

juneaudog, here is what I do - maybe it can give you some insight. My adult dogs are crated four hours in the AM (with a lunchtime potty and play break) and then four hours in the afternoon - while I work. They are loose the other 16 hours of the day. They do eat in their crates, and travel in crates, but that's it. One of my adult dogs is loose even while I work, and another of them is part time.

Thanks - this is pretty much the schedule we are moving over to, of course, but Juneau is also crated at night since she is not yet completely housetrained.

That's pretty much the schedule we follow too. Two of my adult dogs aren't crated, but the other two have to be for their own safety. Recently I decided to trust the two year old for short periods of time and he did well for a few days - right up until he decided to chew the plastic wall plate around the cable outlet. And this was with access to safe bones and a huge toy box of his own. Sharp, jagged peices of hard plastic everywhere -- fortunately he didn't choose the electrical outlet. Back to the crate he went to keep him from chewing something that might kill him. They're all well-exercised and trained, but you can't ever predict what is going to happen while you're gone.

ETA: If anyone that is against crating wants to tell me how I was supposed to predict that and avoid the situation - I'm open to suggestions. This dog was well-exercised and had access to bones and toys.

No dog should be crated for longer than the owner can last without needing the lavatory.

 
This is a silly, irrelevant point to make - we are a different species! Our bladder control and needs have nothing to do with a dog's.