Going nuts

    • Gold Top Dog
    This is going to come across as judgemental--please understand that I am honestly asking out of curiosity.

    You are willing/able to try a strong aversive on your dog but you are not willing/able to just give him the amount of exercise that is appropriate for a dog his age and breed?

    I ask because I have a young, high energy breed dog as well. Whenever I get "too busy" and try giving him too little exercise, his behavior becomes intolerable and I wind up spending all that time I "saved" telling him to get out of stuff, pulling things out of his mouth, etc. So I find that I wind up with more time when I exercise my dog appropriately.



    • Silver
    The problem is this. I wake up and spend an hr with Jules (feeding him, playing with him, walking him). Then I have to get ready for work and leave at 8 am. I return at 6 or sometimes 7:15 (when it's this later I have my mom let him out in the backyard and around the house.) When I return home I walk him. Then I have things to do around the house. I simply don't have time ( I AM WILLING) to spend walking him for hours. Today, for example, it's simply WAY TOO COLD (probably below 20 by now) to walk him. I tried! It lasted for 10 minutes before my hands froze. My point is this, I exercise and play with him as much as I can. I would love to just leave him out in the back yard all day (he's got a dog house) instead of the crate. But he HATES being alone. He destroyed the screen door 3 times. He continuously bangs on the window. I had notices from the city sent to my house because neighbors complained of his barking. I love this dog! He's awesome half the time. I am NOT giving him away! During the warmer months we spend lots of time at the parks on the weekends and more time outside during the week. But that is not always possible for me right now.
    • Silver
    oh AND....as far wasting time correcting him instead of exercising him in the first place....
    I can clearly tell when he's hyper and is trying to start something with me. When that happens we play fetch and I make him run up and down stairs to get rid of some of his energy. Then he calms down a bit.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I can see where fisher6000 is coming from.... Unfortunately you need to be willing (which you are) and able (????) to provide for a dog's needs for him to be happy and well behaved.   
     
    One thing that is often suggested on the CM thread is letting the dog carry a backpack so he gets more exercise out of the time you give him.  This is a bit risky in a young, still developing dog, (and over here labs are very prone to HD due to over breeding, I don't know if it's the same where you are) so it may not be appropriate for Jules but you could look into it.  Ask his breeder what they think or go to your vet for advice.
     
    You've said you walk, play fetch etc. which is great but you haven't said what mental stimulation you provide for him which might be relevant because this is just as important as physical exercise..... have you tried any clicker training?  Have you tried leaving him with interactive toys when he is alone?  Also, are you using NILIF as suggested? All these things would have a positive impact on his behaviour.
    • Gold Top Dog
    possibly a stupid question, but why don't you just shut him out of the living room when you're not around? and when you are around go in the living room with him and reward him (with praise, attention, games, food) for every minute he spends near the couch without humping it?
     
    It sounds to me like you have made a major mistake while raising this guy-- you've taught him that the most reliable way to get attention from you is to misbehave.  Even negative attention is better than no attention.
     
    when raising pups I try very hard to manage their environment so they can't misbehave, and I try very hard to "catch them in the act of being good" and reward that. So many opportunities per day-- look at that puppy! he's not chewing on the couch, he's not peeing on the floor, AND he's not barking! wow what a good doggy.
    • Silver
    I always reward him for good behavior with attention. Even if he's just laying there. I mean, leterally, every chance I get I play with him. We even wrestle! ( I always win.) He loves it!

    He gets mental stimulation when we play because I incorporate commands and we run around the entire house. I keep him on his toes. It's not just me throwing the ball from one spot and him retrieving it. The past week I was reinforcing commands. He started obeying more. I tried to catch him before he starts humping the couch. As soon as he sees that I caught him in the act he darts for a toy to grab. Does that mean he maybe humping the couch to get my attention? Or is this a hormonal thing?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Does that mean he maybe humping the couch to get my attention? Or is this a hormonal thing?


    I wouldn't be surprised if the humping is a way to get attention. To help train Lucy's recall and to keep her from bothering the cats, I'd call her and give her a treat at random times through the day. Well, Lucy is usally following me around anyway - EXCEPT when she's harassing a cat. So she got called and rewarded *more often* after bugging the cats. Pretty soon, she figured out that when she bothered the cats, she got a treat and started bugging the cats MORE! It took awhile, but I figured out that I had to body block her from the cats *then* ask for a down or sit *then* reward her. She needs an aversive in the form of body blocking inbetween the action I'm trying to discourage and the action I'm trying to reward because she links things together too easily. Now she will usually leave the cats alone if I say "Lucy, out!" and then she comes to me and offers another behavior in the hope of getting a reward like a scratch in the tummy.

    I know it's preferable to ignore and redirect unwanted behaviors, but I think some dogs do need to know that something is not allowed first, then shown what is allowed.
    • Gold Top Dog
    This reminds me of something our puppy class trainer would say... "So how did you fit the couch in his crate?"
     
    I see the quandary that the OP is in. 20 below is 20 below. Labs are high energy and need exercise. But this guy also needs to be taught to be calm and chill out for a while. Every minute with "mom" can't be a circus. I don't recall if you said you had a crate, mstrydream, but if not it's time to get one. Get a nice big one that he can relax in. Buy some raw beef bones at the grocery store. Give Jules a bone in his crate, and let him hang out in there enjoying his treat. He needs to be taught relaxation just like everything else! I know this sounds like the opposite of everything you've heard so far, but it's not... he still needs exercise... but he needs to "come down" too.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't have any suggestions for humping because Max isn't a humper.  When we replaced the kitchen countertops & sink, the new configuration of pipes made it impossible to put a trash can under there any more, so I got one out of a catalog - wood with a pull down door.  He can't get into it.  He showed signs early on of being a counter surfer, so we just make sure there's no food left on the counter.  He doesn't surf when we're home, so if we're going out we just make sure there's no food out where he can see/smell it.  We put it back in the fridge, or inside or on top of the microwave where he can't reach.
     
    Joyce
    • Silver
    Jones,

    I do use a crate with Jules when I'm not home and at night. He's fine hanging out in it as long as he got his exercise. He's got toys in there to chew and I leave music on for him when I leave.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Classical music I hope for preference [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I do use a crate with Jules when I'm not home and at night. He's fine hanging out in it as long as he got his exercise. He's got toys in there to chew and I leave music on for him when I leave.

     
    Do you ever have him in there while you're around? What I was trying to get at is that some dogs actually have to be taught (usually as puppies, but better late than never) to relax and be calm around their owners. This goes back to what mudpuppy said about Jules constantly being reinforced for bad behavior. He has to be "treated" and praised for lying quietly beside you so that he doesn't think being naughty is the only way to get attention, or that having a three ring circus is the only way to interact with you. You could do that by just having him down-stay with a bone, but a crate would be the "easy" level.
    • Silver
    I take him out of the crate as much as possible. He's in there enough. He knows how to relax outside of his crate. That usually happens when he's more tired and expended excess energy. We cuddle on the couch almost everynight. He lays on the floor when he's calm. He's not a huge fan of just laying there and playing with his toys alone (unless it's a bone). He likes to interact with dogs and humans. At one point I was considering getting another dog and keeping them outside during the day. That way they can take their energy out playing together. Jules is SUPER friendly. But the idea of two big dogs......is a bad one right now :) Maybe later.....