Going nuts

    • Silver

    Going nuts

    Hello everyone,

    I posted here a few months ago and never got a solution to my problem so I'm trying again.

    I have a 2.5 yr old chocolate lab who requires A LOT of attention. Attention I sometimes don't have time to give. He has a couple habbits I need to get rid of through training or else I'm buying an electric collar to help me. (It's that bad!)

    #1. He humps the couch. He KNOWS it's wrong. (Trust me) Every chance he gets he runs to the couch and tries to hump it until I yell at him and then he runs away grabbing the rug wanting me to chace him. He destroyed the pillows on the couch 3 times. (I can't keep replacing them.)

    #2. He gets in the trash. He stops when I yell NO!

    #3. He jumps on the kitchen counter to get food. Even if there is no food there. I guess he smells something yummy that once was there.

    He is a very intelligent and sneaky dog. I have to keep him in a crate when I'm away and on the leash when I'm at home. I don't want to keep doing this. He is super affectionate and smart and I dont' want to give him up. I love this crazy dog. But right now I'm at my breaking point. How do I train him to stop humping my couch and crawling into the trash can? I am considering buying an electric collar to train him. I've tried distracting him with toys and treats but he learned to use that towards his advantage by doing the wrong things to get food. He only responds to fear. (It's sad, but that's how he is.) I REALLY REALLY need help in training him to respect my house so I can leave him be without a crate and leash. PLEEEEEAAAAAASE HELP!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Use a buckle collar and a drag line in the house,  dont yell at him, get the lead and stop the behavior.  If you umbilical cord him (tie him to your waist) he will learn to move with you and your furniture will be safer. 
     
    Put the trash in a closet or cupboard.
     
    Plan for 10 minutes intense training 3 to 4 times a day, try clicker training, tricks and basic obedience commands.
     
    An e collar in the hands of a frustrated human is not necessarily a good thing. 
     
    Get some Goo Gone or other sticky remover.  Take duct tape and attach tape loops across the counter.  Be prepared with the Goo Gone,,,many dogs find the sensation unpleasant.  This can ONLY BE DONE under close supervision.
     
    Take a training class and work on retrieving behaviors for high energy practice activities.
     
    The only way to get what you want is to put in the time and miles. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree with MRV.  And, I will add, it sounds like your dog is in charge of the house.  Fear doesn't change the behavior, as you've seen.  He stops because of fear, but that doesn't keep him from going back to the behavior later.  So you need to learn some new management techniques.
     
    You have a lab and that is a bit of the problem.  Labs can STAY puppy like in behavior for a good number of years, and it sounds like this boy has had no formal training.
     
    My dogs are crated when I'm out.  Period.  For me it is a safety issue.  I have six german shepherds and crated they can safely be removed from the house in case of fire.  I have their crates located very near a sliding patio door, the fire station KNOWS where my dogs are and I have the house marked with rescue stickers, plus, I have a fire alarm....no burgler alarm, but a fire alarm that goes directly to the firehouse.  I don't CARE about the stuff, but I do care about my dogs.  I can't absolutely guarentee that any of my dogs are going to be calm and peaceful in case of a scarey situation like a fire, and firefighters wear so much gear now that they would probably add more to the fear.  My six are perfectly content in their crates throughout the day.
     
    You need to take control, kindly, gently and in the way that mrv suggested and let this boy know that YOU are the leader, and not him.  Dogs NEED for someone to be in charge and if no human is, they'll take on that role.  Sounds like that is what is happening here.
    • Gold Top Dog
    What have you already tried to train him not to do these things?  That's quite relevant.

    #1  Is this dog neutered?  Would you consider it?  I'm not saying it would cure the behaviour as it will be learned by now and he will need retraining.  But it may make retraining easier.  It may also calm him down.  How much exercise is he getting?  Play?  Training?  What kind of training?  Does he have any interactive toys?  Understimulation will contribute to this problem, he's bored and frustrated and working his frustrations out on the couch.

    #2 There is quite a lot of advice on "counter surfing" on the forum... try doing a forum search.

    #3 Put the bin in a cupboard or somewhere out of his reach as suggested.  I'm afraid that try to teach a young Lab not to eat something is like trying to teach a bloodhound not to follow a scent or sighthound not to run.   

    In general, please stop yelling No at him.  Think of something you want him to do instead and concentrate on what he does right rather than what he does wrong.  Start using NILIF - this will make him respect you more and be more responsive to you generally.  It will also give him structure in his life which will help to calm him. 

    All of what you describe are normal behaviours and IMO do not warrant an e-collar.  Such a device in the hands of someone inexperienced in its use and highly frustrated is a recipe for disaster.  Don't go there.
    • Gold Top Dog
    My friend has a lab and yes they are attention seekers all the way, the first thing i do when i get to their home is walk his dog, they love me to do that (because they dont do it), when i bring back the dog he just lays in the floor and it does notbother anyone else the rest of the day
     
    Use NILIF and excersice your dog, labs have a lot of energy that need to release one way or another, 45 minutes walks will help you to do that
    • Gold Top Dog
    You say he needs a lot of attention, and you don't have time to give it to him.
     
    Does that include exercise?
    It is very important that a very active dog needs exercise, and then you can work on the training, and a bit on reclaiming your leadership that obviously has been lost somewhat.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think it's quite likely this dog needs a lot more exercise. Labs are high-energy dogs with a long puppyhood. I would also urge you to take him to an obedience class - one where you attend every class with him. Look for one that using positive reinforcement and/or clicker training. Fear-based training is not the way to establish a good bond with your dog.
    • Silver
    Thanks for the advice everyone. To answer some questions...

    I read books and talked to people on how to train him. I've been training him for 2.5 yrs now. I guess I haven't been doing it lately and that's why he doesn't obey as much. Maybe I need to do some reinforcing?

    I have been keeping him on a leash so he'd follow me for 2.5 yrs as well. Most of the time he follows me even if I dont' hold the leash, but sometimes he gets bored and stops.

    I am positive that I will not abuse the e-collar. I have great self control that has been tested by my pup. From past experience I noticed that Jules (my dog) responds to fear or pain. (I know that sounds mean, but that's the reality.) I accidently scared him when he first urinated on the carbet during house breaking by screaming "NO NO NO" and dragging him in the back yard. I think that was the last time he did that. There were other incidents he where he crawled someplace outside and hurt himself and never did that again. My point is.... I have evidence that he reacts to pain better than to positive reinforcement. The plan is to put an e-collar on him and step out of the room so he doesnt see me. When he begins to hump the couch I'd activate the collar. This way he will know that there will be a negative consequence even if I'm not in the room. THAT is the problem. He never does this when I'm in site because he knows there will be a neg. consequence. I predict that I will need to use the collar 2-3 times.

    I will hide the trash and maybe try that duck tape solution.

    Please don't assume that I am inexperienced about training and how dogs think. I read plenty of books and did my research (I was also a Psychology major :-) ) However, this is one problem I can't solve yet!
    • Silver
    one more thing....

    Jules could be acting like this out of boredom. He has plenty of toys. He doesn't really play with them independently, except for the soccer ball...sometimes. Any suggestions as to what toys can keep him busy? (Preferreably something without food. I'm watching his diet.)
    • Gold Top Dog
    You can still use a food-dispensing toy if your dog is on a diet. I feed almost all the meals in my house out of Kongs and other puzzle toys. They usually get their dinners out of a bowl, but breakfast is always out of toys, and sometimes dinner is too. Hunting and working for food fulfills a dog's desire to hunt and explore.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: mstrydream
     I accidently scared him when he first urinated on the carbet during house breaking by screaming "NO NO NO" and dragging him in the back yard. I think that was the last time he did that.

     
    OMG!!!!!!  [sm=eek.gif]
     
    All dogs respond to fear or pain and all dogs respond to positive techniques.  If you're dog isn't responding to the fear/pain you are not using a strong enough aversive (and he will get acclimitised to it as you get tougher) and if he is not responding to positive you are not using a strong enough motivator.  In both cases if he is not responding it may be because you are either expecting too much of him or pushing him too far too fast.  If the above is typical of how you trained him it would explain why he seems to understand pain/fear best, but it does not mean that you would not have considerable success with the right positive technique.  Responding to pain/fear and not to rewards is not typical of the breed.  They are extremely food motivated with a high pain threshold and fairly easily socialised to be "bomb proof" (that is, most are "low-fear", calm dogs.  Case in point: Guide Dogs are usually Labs - or retrievers who also display these traits).
     
    Please don't use an e-collar.  This problem behaviour (mounting the couch) is symptomatic of something wrong with his lifestyle and/or training which needs fixing in order for him to be happy and well behaved in general.  The e-collar will not do that for you.
    • Silver
    I began training him with treats actually. I never used neg. reinforcement until I noticed that he took advantage of treats. (He would begin doing a negative action expecting me to give him a command to destract him, like "come" or "sit", to get a treat.) He's very intelligent. Can I make him dumb?!?! JOKING.

    I failed to mention that he was neutered at 8 mo. That did not lower his energy level :-)

    So how do I "untrain" him to stop humping the couch? Besides exercising him more to get rid of excess energy.
    • Silver
    another thing...

    Which model of Knog toy should I use? I had previously bought the ball/polygon type one but the treats dont' come out!!! They just get stuck there!
    • Gold Top Dog
    The plan is to put an e-collar on him and step out of the room so he doesnt see me. When he begins to hump the couch I'd activate the collar. This way he will know that there will be a negative consequence even if I'm not in the room.

     
    I'll leave it to those who have used e-collars to explain fully (mrv? mudpuppy? brookcove?) but I'm fairly sure that is not the proper use of an e-collar in training.
     
    I still think you should take a class. Talking to people and reading books isn't the same as having a professional show you in person. Your body language and timing could be all wrong and you wouldn't know it until someone observes and shows you how to do things properly. Especially if you want to use an e-collar... you really need to have someone show you the right way.
    • Silver
    I can't afford to take classes with him right now. This is why I have to do this on my own :-(