Crate Training Question...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Crate Training Question...

    Okay so Lola willingly goes in the crate alone now... that's where her puppy kong is and she loves it, and she only gets it without us.  So, according to a book I have, the next step is to start closing the door with her in it and leaving her for a few minutes at a time, only opening the door when she's quiet.
     
    So am I supposed to walk away?  Because as soon as I close the door, she starts freaking out.  Is this normal?  I really want to make sure I crate train her right.  I tried sitting in front of her and giving her part of a treat every couple of minutes if she was quiet and that kept her quiet, but if I hide, then she starts fussing again.  Help?
    • Gold Top Dog
    As with all training, you'll do that part gradually too. When you close the door, sit down in the room but don't make eye contact. If she handles that well, pop out of the room for five seconds, gradually increase the time, etc. You always want to avoid rewarding her for fussing by letting her out when she's making noise... but you only have to wait for a split second's silence to jump in and praise and release her. Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    My dogs taught me this:
     
    If you give them a raw beef rib only when the door is closed they will be dying to go into the crate - even at the times when they don't get the rib. If you absolutely won't do the raw bones try a bully stick. Whatever it is has to be really good - addictive even - and something they never get outside of the crate. At first, take the goodie before they lose interest and take them out of the crate at that time. In no time you'll have a dog who loves the crate.
     
    This crate trained some of my older dogs who would stay in a crate if they had to but weren't happy about it. Now if I say "nap time" or "bedtime" they all run to the crates.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Agreed on all counts. Your dog will let you know whether you're going to fast. I'd say at first just close it for a second and stand there. If she's not fussing, open it back up, or wait until she stops fussing to open it back up. After a while of doing that, I'd say the next step is to not leave teh room but move farther away from the crate, maybe even to a spot in the room where she can still hear you but you aren't actually in sight. THEN leave the room for a second.

    I had to do excrutiatingly slow training with Marlowe. For a while I was sitting on top of his crate (it's plastic) where he couldn't see me, and dropping treats down from above as long as he remained calm.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I did what bunni did (setting aside a super special chew and only letting then have it when they were in the crate with the door shut) and it worked a treat.  I also shut them in to eat their meals from day one, partly because then they were too busy eating to notice whether the door was closed or not!  But also because they usually need to eliminate straight away afterward, so I could take them outside directly after the meal and know they would "perform".  I'd gradually increase the time spent in the crate after they finished eating, always letting them out before they got restless.  This helps to acclimitise them to short periods in the crate and is also good for encouraging larger breeds to be calm and quiet after meals and reduce the risk of bloat.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sigh... well, not much progress is being made.  She loves the crate, will run in there herself because her good toys are there... but when I close the door, no matter how much she loves that kong, she'll turn around and cry.  It feels like it's going to take months for her to be properly crate trained!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think you have to be patient.  Dogs are not usually very food motivated if they are in a fearful situation -if they are not sure that they are safe they don't like to let their guard down to eat.  So in this instance she feels scared when you close the door and that's why the kong (which she normally loves) isn't of any interest to her.  So, 1. You need to reduce her fear when the door is closed.  and 2. Is there any way you can increase the value of the kongand make it even more enticing to her?  What do you put in it at the moment?

    Re her anxiety - where are you from?  Can you get a DAP diffuser?  That might help.  You could plug it in near the crate or use the spray inside it.

    I would try using a clicker - I'm not sure if its the best approach, it's just what I would try. 
    - I'd encourage her to go in there and place my hand on the door, click/treat, repeat a few times. 
    - Progress to moving the door a little - click-treat, repeat. 
    - Partway shut the door, click-treat, repeat. 
    I think you can see where I'm going with it.  Progress gradually to actually having the door shut for several seconds with her making no noise and still being apparently happy and waiting for her "click", then try feeding her treats through the bars rather than opening the door to give them to her.  At the end of the session, after a "click" I'd drop a jackpot of treats through the bars onto the bedding, scattering them slightly for her to graze on, then let her out straight away.  I'd do this little and often for a few days.  Once she has realised she can relax and sniff about in the bedding for food, perhaps she won't have such a "block" about settling down with her kong and then you can do as jones said.  Go as slow as you can to make sure she still loves going in there.  Don't worry that you are building up her acceptance second by second - it might seem like an uphill struggle now but baby steps will get better results and surprisingly quickly. 

    By the way if thats her in the pic, she is EXTREMELY cute!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Right now I just put the Puppy Kong Stuff'n in the Kong... I've tried making it more interesting but I'm not really sure how much she likes it... I'd love to figure out a way to make it last longer tho - she licks that stuff'n up in all of 5 seconds sometimes.  What else could I put in it?  I've tried sticking treats inside, some yogurt and kibble... and then freezing it but I worry that if she doesn't eat it fast enough, it'll spoil and make her sick (and poor thing already has coccidia, which is her 2nd bout of upset tummy in 2 weeks).
     
    I'm from Texas... and yeah, I'll get a DAP diffuser next time I go to a pet supply store.  Is the spray good?  I had the feline version of the spray for my cats but I never knew if it worked.
     
    I have been using a clicker but maybe I'll take a few steps back and slow down... right now I have her in the crate, door closed and every few seconds I'll click and treat through the bars.  But if I wait longer than 10 seconds or so, she'll start whining.   Should I keep on where I am or back it up a few notches? 
     
    Also, I wonder if there is anything else that puppies like in the crate... I have a nylabone and a teething toy (and the kong) but I guess once that door closes, her mood shifts to escaping.
     
    And yes, that is her in the picture... actually her left ear has started going down again, lol!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Puppy kibble and a little blob of nat. yoghurt is good, but as its quite perishable I wouldn't keep that long or freeze it.  Dogs often go mad for cheese or soft cheese too.  Warming it slightly in the microwave also makes it more palatable and harder to empty.  You could just add a little canned dog food, or tuna or raw egg or ketchup.... pretty much anything, just go easy on it if she's not used to it.  Peanut butter is usually a winner but its very high in protein and fat so again, just a little blob.
     
    Have you ever made liver cake?  Pretty stinky but dogs love it.  This is an easy microwave version:  Liquidise 220 grams raw liver, 2 eggs, 2 cloves of garlic and 1 teaspoon of oil (any kind) and then add to 220g wholemeal flour. Mix really well, spread evenly in a plastic microwaveable dish and cook on HIGH for 7mins.  Leave to cool slightly, cut into slices and store in the freezer.
     
    I have actually put the raw mixture in a kong with enough room for the mixture to expand, bunged up one end and stood it upright in a cup so the mixture didn't come out.  Then I microwaved it like that and gave to the dogs when it cooled a little.  I made the regular version first so I knew how it was meant to turn out and I just experimented a bit with cooking times, which would vary depending on the power of your microwave and the size of the kong.  The kong lasted AGES - it was smelly and a bit gunky to clean after but they LOVED it.
     
    Anything chilled or frozen would be could to put in her crate - maybe something like a pigs ear, really smelly and proper junk food if we're really honest but a definite treat for the dog and if its cold then it will be doubly attractive to her when shes teething as it will soothe her gums.
     
    Back up a pace or two with the clicker and try again - build up literally second by second initially but occasionally cough up very quickly so shes never sure when the next "click" will come, I'm sure you'll get there.
    • Gold Top Dog
    The treats are a good part of the crate-training, so keep that up, but I think what may be happening is when she starts crying after you close the door and leave, you are going back and letting her out.  That is reinforcing her crying behavior.  My vet says that the dog probably will cry and paw at the door the first few times you close them in and walk away, and that's okay.  As long as they are not PANICKING in their crate you have to ignore the crying.  Panicking would mean working themselves into a frenzy, throwing themselves at the door, or pawing so hard they are injuring their toes.  Some crying is not going to hurt them, and eventually they will learn it won't get them let back out and they will stop.  I know it sounds like tough love, but trust me your dog will still learn to love their crate.  I did this with both my puppies, and they both love their crates and RUN to them everytime I get their stuffed kongs out and say "Kennel".  I find them sleeping in them with the door open all the time, and I even found both of them together in the bigger one's crate playing last night.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Okay I'll try different ways of stuffing the Kong to make it more interesting for her.
     
    2CrazyAussies... actually I have never let her out when she starts crying.  I've waited til she's settled down and THEN when she's quiet and not pawing at the door... then I let her out.  Or then I click and treat her, sometimes I don't let her out at that moment.  So I don't think I've been reinforcing her crying.
     
    Okay, so it IS normal for them to cry?  Okay good... I had heard people say that they aren't supposed to cry in the crate and I was freaking out, thinking I had done something wrong.  Yes, Lola isn't panicking in her crate, just crying and pawing at the door.  I think I will keep clicker training her in the crate as I've been doing then and ignore the crying.
    • Gold Top Dog
    When I get a new puppy I crate him at night and I also feed their meals in there with the door closed from day one so they quickly get accustomed to having the door shut on them and know they will be let out shortly.  I prefer to pre-empt any crying by letting them out before they become restless because otherwise you have 2 choices - let them out and reward them for crying (obviously not good) or leaving them in there when they are obviously not happy and risk them building up a negative assoc. with the crate - also not good.    So my pups rarely cry when in their crate, but if you've taken a different approach and they need longer to adjust to actually being shut in, then crying is pretty normal.  It sounds like you're doing OK, you've done enough with her that she really likes being in there so my guess is a few minutes of crying isn't likely to hurt. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    She's a VERY young puppy, give her time. Lots and lots of time.
     
    It may take weeks, and it may take months, you'll never know. But if you're consistant, and patient, then I think you'll be ok.
     
    Crying is normal. Ignore it. Give LOTS of praise when she goes into the crate on her own. Let me know she's done a GOOD thing by going in there. then gradually close the door.
     
    And when I say gradually, I mean close it a 1/4 of the way first, then 1/2 way, then 3/4, then all the way.
    Praising, and giving her treats each time. But don't do this all at once.
    One day, close it 1/4, then maybe the next 1/2, and so on, until she gets comfortable with the crate being closed.
     
    Good luck!